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   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Last 12 months - Wire and Saints Transformations
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lefty goldblatt wrote:
First off, I couldn't give a shiny 5h1t about St Helens. I care about us. Not having some hypothetical willy measuring contest.


The reference to St Helens was by means of contrast to highlight the disparity
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Deus Dat Incrementum wrote:
I had a quick look at saints results fron when Holbrook took over last May. Yes they had a few decent results and they put a few points on the likes of salford and huddersfield but they were not destroying everybody.
I think they beat salford by one point and they lost 3 games on the run at the start of August.



? Do you not agree that St Helens transformation under Holbrook in < 3/4 season is impressive? They were in the same boat as us at the same time. Look at us both now.
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shinymcshine wrote:
Yep, and in 2016 we won the LLS and came 6 inches from winning the CC and 7 pts off winning the GF, despite, as we all agree, having a worse side than we did in the 2012(ish) golden era.

Come back when Saints have won anything.



What a strange reaction. I tell you what - shall we have a bet which club out of the two will win a GF before the other? I'll take Saints.
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To contrast the 2 sides last Friday, we were crucified by penalties & silly mistakes which meant we had to defend a lot more than Saints. Saints on the other hand were gifted possession & field position by our mistakes & penalties. No wonder Saints still had the energy to run in 3 late tries to put the game to bed in the last 20 minutes. Iron out the penalties & handling mistakes & we will see a different set of results.
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ratticusfinch wrote:
Well exactly, the shiny headed baby has yet to win anything. Long way to go and an injury to Barba and all of a sudden peyroux goes back to himself and LMS, Amor, Swift et al join him.


I think a lot of Wire fans are missing the point of the post in the first place. They aren't saying Saints are the world's best team or that we'll win SL by a record margin, they're just pointing out that we're trying harder to do that than Warrington by acting quicker.

Warrington under Smith were like Arsenal. He'd won stuff in the past but had nothing bar sentimentality left, yet the supporters and board let him stay for two or three years too long. Price hasn't shown anything to suggest he'll be a success either and the recruitment for this year has been poor. Probably too soon to sack him at the moment, but the club's board and the fans need to be ready, pistols in hand, for that being necessary. You don't give him to the end of the season if it's not working by the split this year, you don't give him the start of next year either. Super League is a poor competition these days. It doesn't taken 17 signings and five years to make a team good. Any team in SL could go bottom to top these days with just a couple of signings and a changed in mentality.

Your main problem isn't the coach. I think the recruitment and the lack of quality young players has to be the main concern. Wigan and Saints churn out players who could be internationals every season, Warrington just aren't bringing through enough. An academy isn't just about producing one or two stars, it's about four or five of them at a time pushing to get first team shirts and keeping the senior pros worrying about their positions.
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Saddened! wrote:
I think a lot of Wire fans are missing the point of the post in the first place. They aren't saying Saints are the world's best team or that we'll win SL by a record margin, they're just pointing out that we're trying harder to do that than Warrington by acting quicker.



That's exactly my point. Saints have a much higher bar for what is acceptable day-to-day performance. When it dipped under Cunningham they took decisive action - no sentimentality. They also recruited one of the most exciting players in SL.

Meanwhile we had players telling the Warrington Guardian that "we will come good" and "could go unbeaten to the super 8s", press releases to the Warrington Guardian asking supporters to "get behind the club" from the ex chairman, and apologists saying it will come good, right up until the end of the season. Then a desperate recruitment process to get a coach in place a month before pre-season.

Saint's transformation has been spectacular, ours not so.

That is my point.
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Dita's Slot Meter wrote:
Out of interest, who would you take out of our side who would improve Saints?... I'd suggest very few and definitely not from our mediocre back division?

That actually confirms my original point of where our problems lie...

Looking at both teams starting 13 on Friday I reckon there's three Wire players who get in the Saints team:

Hill for Thompson
Clark for Roby
Ben Murdoch-Masila for Peyroux
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sally cinnamon wrote:
The current squad is not too dissimilar to the one that won the league leaders' shield in 2016.

The main differences since then are:
Roberts for Sandow
K Brown for Gidley
Goodwin for R Evans
Cooper for Sims
BMM for Westerman

Only one like vs like looks to have a clear improvement this season over 2016.
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They are a well-coached and drilled team there’s no doubt but I honestly wasn’t that impressed with Saints. I thought they were there for the taking at half time and we shipped in some soft tries. I think a good team (Leeds or Wigan) would have ran them very close on Friday. Holbrook has been there months now and obviously Price has had a few games so I’d like to see where we are after at least 15-20 games before I begin to panic. It will take time. Tony Smith got 8 years.
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rubber duckie wrote:
Only one like vs like looks to have a clear improvement this season over 2016.


I think both Goodwin and BMM are better than the players they replaced, no?
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