Re: The whole Game is on its booty. How can we change it? : Sun May 02, 2021 10:17 pm  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote: Worst case scenario in your idea then, you're looking ar 36 rounds/weeks for a completed season, where are we putting the 2nd cup competition in, after the challenge cup? I count over 40 fixtures for Wigan in 1991-92 (I pick out them because they won most stuff in the season I started watching): https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seas ... mmary.html So you could argue that that many fixtures is problematic, but it certainly used to happen, and squads are bigger now. I would have the Regal Trophy or equivalent back. It could satisfy those above who want to see more free on terrestrial TV games to get people interested in the sport. And, as I said, having another cup in there gives more chance for supporters to see their team lift a trophy. Even in 1990-1991, when Wigan were dominant and we had a mediocre but hard-working team, we won that trophy. The following year, Widnes beat Leeds in the final when Wigan and Saints were the teams scrapping it out for the league.

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote: Worst case scenario in your idea then, you're looking ar 36 rounds/weeks for a completed season, where are we putting the 2nd cup competition in, after the challenge cup? I count over 40 fixtures for Wigan in 1991-92 (I pick out them because they won most stuff in the season I started watching): https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seas ... mmary.html So you could argue that that many fixtures is problematic, but it certainly used to happen, and squads are bigger now. I would have the Regal Trophy or equivalent back. It could satisfy those above who want to see more free on terrestrial TV games to get people interested in the sport. And, as I said, having another cup in there gives more chance for supporters to see their team lift a trophy. Even in 1990-1991, when Wigan were dominant and we had a mediocre but hard-working team, we won that trophy. The following year, Widnes beat Leeds in the final when Wigan and Saints were the teams scrapping it out for the league.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: The whole Game is on its booty. How can we change it? : Sun May 02, 2021 10:23 pm  

davids wrote: I count over 40 fixtures for Wigan in 1991-92 (I pick out them because they won most stuff in the season I started watching): https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seas ... mmary.html So you could argue that that many fixtures is problematic, but it certainly used to happen, and squads are bigger now. I would have the Regal Trophy or equivalent back. It could satisfy those above who want to see more free on terrestrial TV games to get people interested in the sport. And, as I said, having another cup in there gives more chance for supporters to see their team lift a trophy. Even in 1990-1991, when Wigan were dominant and we had a mediocre but hard-working team, we won that trophy. The following year, Widnes beat Leeds in the final when Wigan and Saints were the teams scrapping it out for the league. Squads are smaller now, the game is a million times tougher than it was in 1991. Theres too many games now, short turnarounds are rough, playing midweek games would be suicide, we tried that in 1999, it was horrendous.

davids wrote: I count over 40 fixtures for Wigan in 1991-92 (I pick out them because they won most stuff in the season I started watching): https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seas ... mmary.html So you could argue that that many fixtures is problematic, but it certainly used to happen, and squads are bigger now. I would have the Regal Trophy or equivalent back. It could satisfy those above who want to see more free on terrestrial TV games to get people interested in the sport. And, as I said, having another cup in there gives more chance for supporters to see their team lift a trophy. Even in 1990-1991, when Wigan were dominant and we had a mediocre but hard-working team, we won that trophy. The following year, Widnes beat Leeds in the final when Wigan and Saints were the teams scrapping it out for the league. Squads are smaller now, the game is a million times tougher than it was in 1991. Theres too many games now, short turnarounds are rough, playing midweek games would be suicide, we tried that in 1999, it was horrendous.

Re: The whole Game is on its booty. How can we change it? : Sun May 02, 2021 10:27 pm  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

Squads are smaller now, the game is a million times tougher than it was in 1991.

Theres too many games now, short turnarounds are rough, playing midweek games would be suicide, we tried that in 1999, it was horrendous.

Then I don't know. But two things make the modern game boring for me (compared to what it was) and they are:
- only two cups to win each season
- playing the same teams up to three times a season in the league

Re: The whole Game is on its booty. How can we change it? : Mon May 03, 2021 1:47 am  

I did contemplate 3 tiers of 16. But to put the regal equivalent as well as the challenge cup I suggested. Your looking at 43 games. Thus why I went with 4/5 tiers of 10. 34 games and less congested. I tried to strike a balance as well as thinking of how we can bring the game back.
Maybe 3 up. 3 down maybe a little.too much. But certainly 2 up 2 down can work. It freshens up the comp each year. Plus I also purposely did not put a grand final in. For the sheer element that your working your booty off for 23 weeks. That's where the league should be won.
And to who it was who thought I was thinking about warrington and the big teams. Quite the contrary. I want a competative league structure from top to bottom. Enabling teams like featherstone. Halifax. Dewsbury and bradford to come up to the big leagues and be competitive with the other teams. Similarly. If wigan. Saints. Leeds. Wire or hull have a shocking season. There is a real threat of relegation from the top league. There was genuine intrest in 2008 I think it was when wigan were bottom of the league half way through the season or whenever it was. Yes. They came back and finnished 8th. But there was genuine intrest in would wigan be relegated. That's the aim. A competitive league structure from top to bottom.

I have other views. Like for example. Make a 2nd, 3rd 4th 5th and 6th package. No 1 broadcaster can have more than 2 packages. And atleast 3 packages (1 from each batch of 2) must go to terrestrial channels. More eyeballs on the game with more broadcasters and the packages are split evenly between the league tiers. So saints, wire, wigan etc will have 6 games each in each tier. And similarly. Oldham or dewsbury have a game atleast in each tier. So in effect. We can have on tv.
Thursday night
Friday night
Saturday 12.30pm
Saturday 3pm
Saturday 6pm
Saturday 8.30pm
Sunday 1pm
Sunday 3.30pm
Sunday 6pm.
Monday night
Tuesday night
Wednesday night

Yes. I may of overdone it and we could lose 1 of the packages so only 10 games are shown per week. But it gives exposure to each tier and each team.

[Uncle Rico]

Re: The whole Game is on its booty. How can we change it? : Mon May 03, 2021 8:08 am  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

Squads are smaller now, the game is a million times tougher than it was in 1991.

Theres too many games now, short turnarounds are rough, playing midweek games would be suicide, we tried that in 1999, it was horrendous.

I'm not so sure about an additional cup competition but I do think that in an ideal world additional fixtures via an expanded league structure would be beneficial as they could be planned rather than 'burdening' successful teams or providing them with additional income beyond prize money.

I would suggest that exposure and the lack of a structured international competition in comparison to Union (by design and ineptitude) is also holding us back together with our demographic and as far as our own sporting fan base is concerned loop fixtures.

There are problems with self interested clubs, depth and quality of the player pool and genuine appetite but could we reassess the league over say 5 years to get us up to a fully funded 16 team via 14?

Could we lengthen the season dates to accommodate this programme even by a month giving players adequate time to recover? Apart from welfare this would also even out income for all. If your not in the play offs then your club is shut down for 6 months and that's too long IMO

Top and bottom for me I love the sport (so I'm not the top target audience) but even I'm getting weary of playing Wigan 'familiarity breeding contempt'.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: The whole Game is on its booty. How can we change it? : Mon May 03, 2021 8:30 am  

Re the Wigan issue, there's 2 parts that have played into that.

Challenge cup and magic weekend.

Magic, very straightforward they don't bother to rotate fixtures, it's lazy and boring, I got this way with saints and also widnes(maybe not beating widnes)

At the same time we've drawn Wigan a few times in the cup, now I'm not suggesting this is rigged but it has become a running gag. The likelihood though is down to them changing the rules a few years ago for non play off sl teams coming in a round early. They take out at least half of the lower league teams so when the next round is done, it's practically an all sl cup competition.

I think they need to tinker with this, possibly even seed it, make all superleague teams play away if you get a lower league side, that gives us a new place yo visit and gives the lower club the chance of a payday. And a big match experience (even if it is a kicking).

[Uncle Rico]

Re: The whole Game is on its booty. How can we change it? : Mon May 03, 2021 8:54 am  

I do like the idea of an away day in the cup, hopefully to a new ground/town and preferably accessible by train with a plethora of decent real ale pubs on tap ha ha

Re: The whole Game is on its booty. How can we change it? : Mon May 03, 2021 10:23 am  

Uncle Rico wrote:

I'm not so sure about an additional cup competition but I do think that in an ideal world additional fixtures via an expanded league structure would be beneficial as they could be planned rather than 'burdening' successful teams or providing them with additional income beyond prize money.

Well, the whole reason I suggested an additional cup was because I don't want to see more meaningless league fixtures. Teams end up going through the motions to end in a playoff place or stave off relegation - too many dead rubbers when you don't get the main prize for coming top any more.

Cup rugby is do-or-die, especially a cup like the RT was. You had big clubs (see the Widnes and Leeds example above, 1991-92 who were already realistically out of the league running) going for it, you had clubs like Warrington and Bradford the season before who were fairly poor sides but knew if they could string 4 wins together in a cup competition it would be a memorable season for them and their fans.

Re: The whole Game is on its booty. How can we change it? : Mon May 03, 2021 10:42 am  

On a more immediate note :

How will clubs adapt the matchday experience when fans, who've been away for over 12 months, return to the stadiums ?

If it's a return to overexcited beer drinkers hurling abuse and spilling beer around I'm not sure some will enjoy the return, having been in relative isolation for so long. Furthermore how will they appeal to those that have got use to money saved by not going each week, and attract new fans who might be desperate for a new experience ?

Okay, it's RL, I'm sure the planning is just to dust off where things were pre-lockdown and carry on as it was, but there is a chance for change now if they took it.

Re: The whole Game is on its booty. How can we change it? : Mon May 03, 2021 11:18 am  

shinymcshine wrote:

On a more immediate note :

How will clubs adapt the matchday experience when fans, who've been away for over 12 months, return to the stadiums ?

If it's a return to overexcited beer drinkers hurling abuse and spilling beer around I'm not sure some will enjoy the return, having been in relative isolation for so long. Furthermore how will they appeal to those that have got use to money saved by not going each week, and attract new fans who might be desperate for a new experience ?

Okay, it's RL, I'm sure the planning is just to dust off where things were pre-lockdown and carry on as it was, but there is a chance for change now if they took it.

I share your concerns with "getting back to normal". Do the careful ones amongst us look forward to popping to the loo at half time and shuffling 6 inches away from the next man. I don't really think we will get back to "normal" for a very long time.