Re: Our Glaring Deficiency V2 : Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:38 am  

morrisseyisawire wrote:

No, RD I don't buy that. Bringing Livett back into the fold last season wpukdn't have been considered a risk and his form @ HKR was good. Instead we persisted with your friend Akuola and J Clark.

Sheer bloody mindedness.

The top teams are always under preasure to win but they manage that and still promote youth. Are you suggesting that we can't have an effective youth policy until the GF monkey is off our back and the preasure off? Hasn't it occurred to you that this is the exact approach iof the last 10 years that has failed and is why we are having the debate?

Well with you on Livett.
He was fantastic for us prior to his injury in 2018 and his untimely return at Wembley where he was ruddy awful.
I'm not sure he would be considered a development product, he is accomplished.
There has to be something in it...If there is a board eyebrow raised quietly upon Pricey's tender....it'll be Livett.
I think Moran has ordered not to pull rank on Pricey....but he must be scratching his head??

There could be something more than the antipodean preference to Jace Clark....because he simply hasn't a hair of talent Livett has.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Our Glaring Deficiency V2 : Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:46 am  

But he wasn't fantastic, he was just in the right places to finish some tries off in a few consecutive matches.

Genuine question now, can someone, please tell me what skills livett actually brings to the first team.

Or what skills did he have in the academy when he first started getting promoted to the first team.

Re: Our Glaring Deficiency V2 : Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:49 am  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

But he wasn't fantastic, he was just in the right places to finish some tries off in a few consecutive matches.

Genuine question now, can someone, please tell me what skills livett actually brings to the first team.

Or what skills did he have in the academy when he first started getting promoted to the first team.

FMC
Are you saying being 'in the right places' to finish off a move is just luck?

Re: Our Glaring Deficiency V2 : Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:14 am  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

But he wasn't fantastic, he was just in the right places to finish some tries off in a few consecutive matches.

Genuine question now, can someone, please tell me what skills livett actually brings to the first team.

Or what skills did he have in the academy when he first started getting promoted to the first team.

Livett still has a lot to prove to me whether he will make it as a top 4 club as their starting back rower. He's miles off where the likes of Currie and Hughes were at the same age. I've always thought he's had talent - but he hasn't ever shown it consistently enough for me. Of the other 'youngsters' that have left recently I dont expect Morgan Smith to be troubling the top sides, Luis Johnson still has time and is still at the club. The best player that we have produced then let go in teh past ten years is probably Gaz O'Brien, he wasn't good enough to be our starting full back when he left, and he's not good enough to be our starting full back now.

I don't think there's a problem with the decision making over the players we let go - we make the right decisions on them..... But was their development good enough while they were here?

Re: Our Glaring Deficiency V2 : Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:46 am  

Am I missing something or was Wane the only one promoting kids to first team and giving them a decent go.

Re: Our Glaring Deficiency V2 : Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:54 am  

karetaker wrote:

Am I missing something or was Wane the only one promoting kids to first team and giving them a decent go.

But as a alluded...Wigan had the umbrella of success enough to do it...
Whereas Wire are scared to death because of GF failure to take a risk.

Re: Our Glaring Deficiency V2 : Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:57 am  

rubber duckie wrote:

Well with you on Livett.
He was fantastic for us prior to his injury in 2018 and his untimely return at Wembley where he was ruddy awful.

He had a golden 6 weeks in an around the time of the Leeds away game, then got injured and lost his place.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Our Glaring Deficiency V2 : Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:15 am  

rubber duckie wrote:

FMC
Are you saying being 'in the right places' to finish off a move is just luck?

It's not black and white like that is it, case in point, one of those tries in the leeds away game, there was a multiple person move involving ratch, daz, tyrone, hughes and livett finished it off (iirc i'll go to youtube to confirm later) livett was the last pair of hands and walked over the line as we'd stretched the eff out of leeds' defence.

I'm not going to pan a player for scoring tries, but if this conversation was, livett set up x amount of tries during that same period, i'd be more impressed.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Our Glaring Deficiency V2 : Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:20 am  

Alffi_7 wrote:

Livett still has a lot to prove to me whether he will make it as a top 4 club as their starting back rower. He's miles off where the likes of Currie and Hughes were at the same age. I've always thought he's had talent - but he hasn't ever shown it consistently enough for me. Of the other 'youngsters' that have left recently I dont expect Morgan Smith to be troubling the top sides, Luis Johnson still has time and is still at the club. The best player that we have produced then let go in teh past ten years is probably Gaz O'Brien, he wasn't good enough to be our starting full back when he left, and he's not good enough to be our starting full back now.

I don't think there's a problem with the decision making over the players we let go - we make the right decisions on them..... But was their development good enough while they were here?

This is where i'm at, and why i asked, he's not particularly pacey, he's not got fantastic quick hands or a great offload, he's not a line busting prop, he's not big wide ranging, he's not impactful, and he's not particularly an impressive tackler, so what is his area of expertise?

I mentioned this earlier this season, he had a great opportunity to solidify left 2nd row as his own at the start of the year, at best this season he's been as good as, ben currie who's been coming back from 2 knee surgeries and feeling his way back.

Thats nothing to get excited about.

Re: Our Glaring Deficiency V2 : Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:02 pm  

morrisseyisawire wrote:

Hasn't it occurred to you that this is the exact approach iof the last 10 years that has failed and is why we are having the debate?

Hasn't it occurred to you that the last 10 years at Warrington has been a big success? For those 10 years Wire have been feasting at the top table, have appeared in more major finals than anyone, have hugely advanced off the field and have attracted some of the biggest stars in world rugby! Why?....because they have the financial clout to do it! If you want to bring youngsters through all well and good and go ahead and invest some money in it but don't take your eye off the big picture! One year of failure maybe all it takes to sentence you back to your most regular position over the years.....amongst the also rans!! You really shouldn't change too much. At the moment you're the envy of an awful lot of other clubs and certainly a huge success story in a lot of peoples eyes!!