: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:26 am  

Ian [77] wrote:

We've paid the players in accordance with our understanding of a) the law and b) the salary cap/competition rules. If one or the other change then we'll have to react accordingly. I don't see how we can be criticised for being smart in the past and for being open and upfront now.

Not trying to be clever, but the three words I have added are crucial.

From what we have read (and I stress that) it would appear that payments may have been made that were not in accordance with the law - as now clarified. And therefore also the cap rules.

I stress...this remains speculation, although each bit that comes out tends to strengthen the argument.

The key thing would be whether implicated clubs acted in good faith having taken proper advice, or whether they acted negligently or recklessly - or even fraudulently - in pursuing an activity which they knew or ought to have known was suspect. I don't know the answer to that (and I can speculate all I like) and neither does anyone else outside of those actually involved.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:29 am  

Adeybull wrote:

Not trying to be clever, but the three words I have added are crucial.

From what we have read (and I stress that) it would appear that payments may have been made that were not in accordance with the law - as now clarified. And therefore also the cap rules.

I stress...this remains speculation, although each bit that comes out tends to strengthen the argument.

The key thing would be whether implicated clubs acted in good faith having taken proper advice, or whether they acted negligently or recklessly - or even fraudulently - in pursuing an activity which they knew or ought to have known was suspect. I don't know the answer to that (and I can speculate all I like) and neither does anyone else outside of those actually involved.

The words I've highlighted are crucial. You have as much idea as I do about that - zero. Interesting to speculate/guess though.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:39 am  

Ian [77] wrote:

The words I've highlighted are crucial. You have as much idea as I do about that - zero. Interesting to speculate/guess though.

Indeed.

What seems increasingly less to be speculation now though is that HMRC ARE pursuing a number of clubs for arrears of tax. My comment was regarding the extent of mitigating circumstances. I hope for the good of the game that implicated clubs did indeed act in good faith after taking proper advice. Even Saints.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:56 am  

Big Steve wrote:

Wigan don't pay their players in this way - well under Whelan they certainly didn't because he expected that teh tax man would come sniffing round sooner rather than later.

However, as it basically means that the clubs (Wire and Saints to name 2) that have paid their players this way have effectively been getting a 12.5% increase and advantage on their salary cap for the overseas contingent (typically the most expensive players).

Hardly in the spirit of the salary cap is it - employing tax evasion/avoidance schemes that the tax man is now investigating?????????

Wigan certainly did pay their players this way. They just didn't declare it until caught out - does the phrase "deliberately and systematically cheating the salary cap" mean anything to you?


This is like the annual "Warrington has broke the salary cap week" we use to have every year until the truth came out and it was Wigan, Bradford and St Helens who had broke it as usual.

I would suggest that Gatcliffe is willing to put his voice behind the debate as Warrington have nothing to fear from the enquiry. We may well have to pay some money to the Inland Revenue but at least we can source that from our backer in the form of an interest free loan at very short notice. I would be interested to see how Bradford could raise cash from the money market in the current economic climate.

There will be plenty of clubs sweating a lot heavier about this than Warrington will be. Worse case scenario is that King and Monaghan choose to accept an early contract release and the way those signings have turned out lets be honest it could be a blessing in disguise.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:22 am  

Herb Narvo wrote:

Wigan certainly did pay their players this way. They just didn't declare it until caught out - does the phrase "deliberately and systematically cheating the salary cap" mean anything to you?


This is like the annual "Warrington has broke the salary cap week" we use to have every year until the truth came out and it was Wigan, Bradford and St Helens who had broke it as usual.

I would suggest that Gatcliffe is willing to put his voice behind the debate as Warrington have nothing to fear from the enquiry. We may well have to pay some money to the Inland Revenue but at least we can source that from our backer in the form of an interest free loan at very short notice. I would be interested to see how Bradford could raise cash from the money market in the current economic climate.

There will be plenty of clubs sweating a lot heavier about this than Warrington will be. Worse case scenario is that King and Monaghan choose to accept an early contract release and the way those signings have turned out lets be honest it could be a blessing in disguise.

I'd love to have seen Mo's piggy features squealing as the documented evidence was put in front of him.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:48 pm  

It's ridiculous this. How is Super League supposed to get bigger if they won't allow more money into the game? I know people don't want it to get to the same extent as football, but as the game grows, players deserve higher salaries. They're professional athletes and do just as much as RU players, footie players etc...

Increase the salary cap I say.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:51 pm  

JBrown832 wrote:

It's ridiculous this. How is Super League supposed to get bigger if they won't allow more money into the game? I know people don't want it to get to the same extent as football, but as the game grows, players deserve higher salaries. They're professional athletes and do just as much as RU players, footie players etc...

Increase the salary cap I say.

need to increase the fanbase before that happens, football players get paid that much because they draw 30000 a week each paying £20 or more

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:03 pm  

tino wrote:

need to increase the fanbase before that happens, football players get paid that much because they draw 30000 a week each paying £20 or more

True. But big names bring in the crowds and if we can't get them big Aussie names over here, then it'll go no where.

I think poaching some big name Union players is as a good idea as well.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:59 pm  

got to work from the bottom up in my opinion, get the game spread around more, as the rfl are trying to do (with, it seems, increasing success), increased media coverage will follow, increased crowds will follow that

the game is hardly advertised in it's own backyard never mind anywhere else, but why would newspapers and other media waste column inches on something with such a small base in terms of geographical area and number of fans?

we all love the game and think it is the best sport going, but the sad fact is there aren't many of us that agree and i don't think chucking money at it from the top will change that

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:41 pm  

tino wrote:

got to work from the bottom up in my opinion, get the game spread around more, as the rfl are trying to do (with, it seems, increasing success), increased media coverage will follow, increased crowds will follow that

the game is hardly advertised in it's own backyard never mind anywhere else, but why would newspapers and other media waste column inches on something with such a small base in terms of geographical area and number of fans?

we all love the game and think it is the best sport going, but the sad fact is there aren't many of us that agree and i don't think chucking money at it from the top will change that

I'm just saying, for example, Johnny Wilkinson moved to RL, the amount of media coverage rugby league would get would be huge and all those kids that look up to Wilkinson would follow RL, meaning the fan base would increase along with the participants in the sport.

It's kinda similar to Beckham moving to the MLS.

I'm trying to keep this relevant to the salary cap, I personally believe, higher wages, means big name players, which leads onto all sorts of benefits for the sport.