Re: ot/ Tottenham Riots : Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:27 pm  

Tin Soldier wrote:

Anyway, does anybody want to buy a knock off TV.....

only if you deliver to SW France .....

Re: ot/ Tottenham Riots : Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:41 pm  

better get used to it, it's gonna get worse.

Yesterday Tottenham, 20 years time Orford Lane.

Re: ot/ Tottenham Riots : Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:02 pm  

So is this all about black guys and their gangs?

Re: ot/ Tottenham Riots : Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:11 pm  

Thelonius wrote:

Surprised there haven't been any wigan fans on yet accusing Warrington 'The Scum of Rugby League' Wolves fans being at the heart of it!

Bag of chips on each shoulder....

Re: ot/ Tottenham Riots : Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:17 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

The Higher archy of the army kill more innocent people than the police, and generally they get supported by the public
People take the police for granted, there is no 'help for heroes' campaign for the police, everyone wants to look for reasons to attack them, yes I'm sure there is some corruption within the police, it doesn't detract from the fact that the British police are admired across the world as an example of an efficient and generally fair police force. Whenever I've had dealings with them they've always been polite and professional but lots of people just see the police as a nuisance when they are doing their job and want to make them out to be the enemy. I saw a few occasions when I was a student when there would be open law breaking and anti social behaviour going on with people having all night drug fuelled street parties keeping the neighbourhood up, and when the police came to try to get things under control some smartbooty would start provoking the police, jumping on the bonnet of their car or throwing things at police officers, and when the police then moved in with dogs to take charge of the situation, you got no end of complaints about "police brutality", all these petitions going round the university for complaints to the Home Secretary about the behaviour of the police.

So I have got a very suspicious view of when people want to start slagging off the police and 'demanding answers', the people who should be giving the answers are criminals. Remember last year how Gazza's mate Raul Moat was seen in some quarters as some hero of the people for blinding a policeman and killing someone else then going into a public stand off against the police till he was killed.

In this situation it looks like a guy has fired a weapon at the police and been shot dead and now the community are 'demanding answers', although the way they are doing this is through widespread burglary and looting. Thats a funny form of civil rights movement.

I don't think all police should carry guns, I think the balance is just right now where they have a special armed unit. But if you are being confronted by armed police then you can't shoot a policeman and expect them not to deal with you quickly.

edited for acuracy as the head honchos of the military chose the targets

Re: ot/ Tottenham Riots : Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:20 pm  

How is it the Higher archy (sic) that kills? They might give the orders but it's the soldiers who do the killing. I think he meant the army as an organisation anyway.

Re: ot/ Tottenham Riots : Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:26 pm  

The All New Chester Wire wrote:

How is it the Higher archy (sic) that kills? They might give the orders but it's the soldiers who do the killing. I think he meant the army as an organisation anyway.

the lower ranks just follow orders given i understand the army is an organisation but its unfair that this would show the lads on the ground in a bad light innocents will get injured/ or even worse in conflict but the innocents are usually hit from afar by "smart" bombs or artillery which is ordered from above. The army can be reconised as the who institution or as "an army" meaning a small band of men

Re: ot/ Tottenham Riots : Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:44 pm  

Yeah I mean the army as an organisation, if you're in the business of killing targets then some times the wrong intelligence will come through and you will kill the wrong one, it happens in the army and it happened to the police with Jean de Menezes. It doesn't mean that our police are all bent and corrupt.

But the worst thing about this for me, is that these Tottenham rioters have just used it as an excuse to go and do a big theft of PC World, JD sports etc, like as if that is showing solidarity for the guy who was killed, they have just disrespected his name even more.

Re: ot/ Tottenham Riots : Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:45 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

Yeah I mean the army as an organisation, if you're in the business of killing targets then some times the wrong intelligence will come through and you will kill the wrong one, it happens in the army and it happened to the police with Jean de Menezes. It doesn't mean that our police are all bent and corrupt.

But the worst thing about this for me, is that these Tottenham rioters have just used it as an excuse to go and do a big theft of PC World, JD sports etc, like as if that is showing solidarity for the guy who was killed, they have just disrespected his name even more.

great posts as usaul sal

Re: ot/ Tottenham Riots : Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:47 pm  

the original stevo wrote:

the lower ranks just follow orders given i understand the army is an organisation but its unfair that this would show the lads on the ground in a bad light innocents will get injured/ or even worse in conflict but the innocents are usually hit from afar by "smart" bombs or artillery which is ordered from above. The army can be reconised as the who institution or as "an army" meaning a small band of men

Yes this is my point about the Met police and the Jean Michael de Menezes incident that got brought up earlier in the thread, people use that to attack the police as an institution saying they just go gung ho shooting people. But they just carried out orders and a mission that was based on bad intelligence.

If the army is sent to carry out a mission to eliminate some Taleban insurgents from a street, and it turns out after they have carried out the mission that it was bad intelligence, then thats the same situation, it doesn't mean the squaddies are cowboys who have gone shooting up everything.