Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:20 am  

headhunter wrote:

None of that is relevant though, you seem to be totally deluded about the nature of the sport and the nature of Super League. It's not a charity. If you think that clubs like Batley and Dewsbury are ever going to be in SL then you aren't living in the real world. Featherstone in Super League would go the exact same way that Leigh did. The likes of Featherstone and Leigh are good Championship clubs, they are valuable for the sport but they simply are not top-flight clubs, and don't have the potential to be. With the best will in the world, Featherstone are a similar but much smaller club than Castleford and Wakefield, two clubs who themselves struggle to compete in SL. The (flawed) rationale for changing the league structure is apparently to create more competitive games, even if Featherstone maxed out their potential and reached the level that the likes of Castleford are currently at then they still wouldn't be good enough for Super League. The fact that Featherstone were resourceful enough to get a new stand is great, but it isn't anything like enough for them to be able to compete. It's a drop in the ocean, honestly.

They seem to be pretty well run and they are doing a good job at the moment, but Featherstone in SL would be a disaster for everyone concerned. If you want to be a blinkered one-club fan then whatever, that's your loss. Nobody needs to contrive things to cater for a tiny minority of people with backwards mentalities.

Quite simply a horrific response that shows a definite 'as long as I'm alright' mentality. I completely disagree with the whole response and I understand that due to our different experiences watching teams in different leagues we are probably never going to agree or even take on board each others points here. Hopefully the people in charge do no have this view, because fev have done everything they can and more to get into top flight. No it's not a charity and letting us in isn't like throwing us a proverbial bone only for us to choke on it. I feel it is the spirit of what makes sport great, that chance you can get up there and compete...and maybe even stay up.

What team do you support I ask again as you seem to be picking and choosing which parts you reply to?

Finally, it it's just a small minority with backwards mentalities can you explain why the attendances are so awful for internationals and the challenge cup, our so called showpiece final? And why are attendances dropping everywhere outside superleague except at fev where even though fans at other clubs have been in short supply our attendance has bucked the trend and risen? Because licensing removed the hope and soul of the game and made promotion into a men in grey suits box ticking except use instead of sporting achievement. Again I would love to see how you mystery club would get back in after so many years out.

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:33 am  

Birchy wrote:

Quite simply a horrific response that shows a definite 'as long as I'm alright' mentality. I completely disagree with the whole response and I understand that due to our different experiences watching teams in different leagues we are probably never going to agree or even take on board each others points here. Hopefully the people in charge do no have this view, because fev have done everything they can and more to get into top flight. No it's not a charity and letting us in isn't like throwing us a proverbial bone only for us to choke on it. I feel it is the spirit of what makes sport great, that chance you can get up there and compete...and maybe even stay up.

What team do you support I ask again as you seem to be picking and choosing which parts you reply to?

Finally, it it's just a small minority with backwards mentalities can you explain why the attendances are so awful for internationals and the challenge cup, our so called showpiece final? And why are attendances dropping everywhere outside superleague except at fev where even though fans at other clubs have been in short supply our attendance has bucked the trend and risen? Because licensing removed the hope and soul of the game and made promotion into a men in grey suits box ticking except use instead of sporting achievement. Again I would love to see how you mystery club would get back in after so many years out.

Birchy - you are 100% correct. I wouldn't continue to debate with this Headhunter guy. To be honest, it sounds like he is on the wrong board and, suffering some form of dyslexia. It seems to me he really intends to be discussing rugby union in South Wales. So just leave him to it.

Personally, I'd have Super League as a 13 team league in 2014 if London drops out. Under the new structure from 2015 onwards, Featherstone will have the opportunity to win a place in the top 12 Super League; on merit, on the field of play. They (and other current Championship clubs) deserve that chance. The work done in recent years by the Featherstone club and the new financial backing they have will give you a pretty good chance of achieving the success you have earned. If it turns out that Featrherstone and others aren't in fact good enough to break into the 12 then so be it - but the new structure will be fantastic in that it opens up the possibility.

Good riddance to the system of the men in suits in smoked filled rooms deciding who's in and out. It's not British.

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:50 am  

In response to your reply Churchill 'ooooh yes'! I agree. It just needs to be fair to all and not a flight of fancy sorting rl out in France and god knows where else.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:56 am  

I think there is a fundamental question about what role we think the governing body should play.

Do we want something that limits itself to competent bureaucracy, organisation, facilitating and oversight allowing the sport to evolve naturally? If you wanted to put a negative connotation on it, you might call it 'drift'.

Or do we want it to offer leadership, direction and vision. Or maybe 'manipulation', if you prefer the first option.

The problem for me is that we never choose - when it looks like we're going one way, it is always tempered by a little of the other, creating confusion and distrust.
SL without Cheshire, Calder and Humberside. The non-fed rule in constant retreat, the loopholes in the salary cap, licensing as softcore franchising, then abandoning it to save Bradford. Fudging everything with constant dispensations and exemptions.
Or now we're supposedly going a bit more laissez-faire, there's a rumour on the London board that if they're in SL next year they'll be allowed extra non-fed players. As a Hull KR fan, I'm not going to be holier than thou about that one, and it might not be true - but who'd bet against it?
There's never the political will (across the sport) to implement radical reform properly, but we can never fully stop ourselves interfering either, it seems.

[Wildthing]

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:56 am  

littlerich wrote:

Thankfully those people running SL have decided that arrogant viewpoints like the one above have no place in RL. Clubs outside SL will be afforded the opportunity to challenge for a place in SL by being the best on the pitch. That's why we're all here isn't it? To watch a game of Rugby League. Headhunter has never answered the question of which team he goes to watch week in week out because he doesn't go and watch the game week in week out. It's a competitive sport not a gentlemen's club. SL chairmen have tried the franchise route and it's failed. It's their money, it's their experiences and it's their pocket it's hurting so they're now trying a different route once more.

Deal with it.

Well said. Some of the arrogant posts in this thread are cringe-worthy.

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:07 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

That's fine, but it effectively means promote no one as the odds are against them and keep clubs in SL as they are the best we can hope for.

Also we can cut SL right down as I mean seriously what are the odds of clubs like Huddersfield, Warrington, Hull KR ever achieving.

Decades of going no where, decades of mediocrity. Should have been merged with Halifax, Saints and Hull FC to allow them to succeed.

Ok I'm being sarcastic, but no one can predict the future of clubs, todays SL is a hell uv a lot different to the first SL.

Only 6 club surviving, Bradford and Leeds swapping opposite ends of the league, London from a successful start slowly fading over time. Warrington annual contenders rather than annual pretenders. Clubs in the mean time have flirted with relegation, been down and come back merged, restarted. None of it is predictable as you make it sound. Whose to say Featherstone will not thrive and others fall back, that is sport. You cannot predict 10-20 years ahead.

But I'll let you try. £10 to you if you can predict 3/4ers of SL 2030. I'm happy to make it a one way bet.

1. St Helens
2. Wigan
3. Bradford
4. London
5. Warrington
6. Halifax
7. Sheffield Eagles
8. Oldham
9. Castleford
11. Paris St Germain
12. Workington

1 Huddersfield Giants
2 Warrington Wolves
3 Wigan Warriors
4 Leeds Rhinos
5 St Helens
6 Catalan Dragons
7 Hull FC
8 Hull K R
9 Bradford Bulls
10 Wakefield Wildcats
11 Widnes Vikings
12 Castleford Tigers
13 Salford City Reds
14 London Broncos

Wire have never been relegated in their history, so we have 7 clubs. 10 years ago Huddersfield could show you their stadium and their investment. if Hudds were back at far town without 2 pennies to rub together, nobody would be arguing for their inclusion in SL, not even themselves.

As for who is to say fev won't be where Leeds are, me. I'm saying it because the don't have the facilities, they have shown they have the money, a plan, or the ability to get there. If they show those things then I'm more than in favour of giving them a chance. In fact I'd give them a better chance with more time and stability to do so. Leaving it in the lap of the gods, with no strategy or long term plan is an idiotic way of running the game.

If you want to ask who is to say Fev won't thrive in SL, I can ask who is to say their presence doesn't damage SL who is to say their promotion won't stop some other club thriving in SL?

The romanticism of the underdog is not a replacement for long term strategy and planning.

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:13 am  

littlerich wrote:

Thankfully those people running SL have decided that arrogant viewpoints like the one above have no place in RL. Clubs outside SL will be afforded the opportunity to challenge for a place in SL by being the best on the pitch. That's why we're all here isn't it? To watch a game of Rugby League. Headhunter has never answered the question of which team he goes to watch week in week out because he doesn't go and watch the game week in week out. It's a competitive sport not a gentlemen's club. SL chairmen have tried the franchise route and it's failed. It's their money, it's their experiences and it's their pocket it's hurting so they're now trying a different route once more.

Deal with it.

whats funny is they won't be offered a place in SL. The morons have been tricked by a Trojan offering. This isn't an expansion of SL, it isn't bringing the lower leagues in. It's a contraction and some idiots blinded by the hope the would be challenging leeds and Wigan for trophies haven't yet noticed they have been sold 4 home games against the worst teams in SL.

In 3 years time when they realise what has happened, I wonder what will be to blame?

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:16 am  

Birchy wrote:

Finally, it it's just a small minority with backwards mentalities can you explain why the attendances are so awful for internationals and the challenge cup, our so called showpiece final? And why are attendances dropping everywhere outside superleague except at fev where even though fans at other clubs have been in short supply our attendance has bucked the trend

they aren't

[Mild Rover]

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:20 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Leaving it in the lap of the gods, with no strategy or long term plan is an idiotic way of running the game.

Is it though? I'm not somebody who believes in taking the ideas of Adam Smith or Charles Darwin to illogical extremes. But there is surely something to be said for just letting the clubs get on with it, adapting as they see fit within a simple and basic framework, rather than top-down slightly Maoist 5-year plans.

The World changes and rigid long-term plans are likely to create unintended and undesirable consequences.

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:20 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

I think there is a fundamental question about what role we think the governing body should play.

Do we want something that limits itself to competent bureaucracy, organisation, facilitating and oversight allowing the sport to evolve naturally? If you wanted to put a negative connotation on it, you might call it 'drift'.

Or do we want it to offer leadership, direction and vision. Or maybe 'manipulation', if you prefer the first option.

The problem for me is that we never choose - when it looks like we're going one way, it is always tempered by a little of the other, creating confusion and distrust.
SL without Cheshire, Calder and Humberside. The non-fed rule in constant retreat, the loopholes in the salary cap, licensing as softcore franchising, then abandoning it to save Bradford. Fudging everything with constant dispensations and exemptions.
Or now we're supposedly going a bit more laissez-faire, there's a rumour on the London board that if they're in SL next year they'll be allowed extra non-fed players. As a Hull KR fan, I'm not going to be holier than thou about that one, and it might not be true - but who'd bet against it?
There's never the political will (across the sport) to implement radical reform properly, but we can never fully stop ourselves interfering either, it seems.

We had 10 years of quality leadership. The game at all levels grew hugely. We have seemed to have spent the last couple of years undoing all the good we had done.

Within 5 years we will have completely new leadership at the rfl and this dumbass idea which has proven a complete failure everywhere it has been tried will be dumped. Hopefully the 2nd tier and lower SL clubs won't have lost so much ground they are cast adrift.