Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:08 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Don't suppose you could show stats back to 2009 like Him did?
Just that his stats showed support for the Leeds-London game going up-down-up-down.

I agree. His provision of attendance stats for Leeds home games ONLY were inadequate.

Here you go and feel free to draw your own conclusions on SL attendances going back further than comparisons to last year. I appreciate that SmokeyTA is very uncomfortable with 2013 attendance comparisons with last year as he's regularly demonstrated on this thread for the best part of the last three months

London away game attendances in 2013 compared to same fixtures last year
Fixture..... 2013... 2012... 2011... 2010... 2009
v Hudds... 5273... 6019... 5220... 5336... 6356
v Wigan... 11590...12608... 12813... 18605... 14977
v Salford... 2333... 5250... 3065... 2672... 3367
v Castleford... 4751... 5149... 7072... 5862... 7049
v Warrington... 9681... 11118... 11506... 11678... 10387
v Leeds... 12855... 13109... 14350... 12684... 13912
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL... 46483... 53253... 54026... 56837... 56048
% change.......... -12.71... -13.96... -18.22... -17.07
-----------------------------------------------------------------


Catalan away game attendances in 2013 compared to same fixtures last year
Fixture..... 2013... 2012... 2011... 2010... 2009
v Hull KR... 7864... 7142... 8092... 7102... 8115
v Warrington... 10015... 10570... 10956... 9619... 7947
v Castleford... 5205... 5005... 4889... 4209... 5508
v Wigan... 12149... 14464... 13134... 12001... 11543
v London... 1136... 1829... 2069... 2330... 2539
v Hull... 10065... 10765... 10739... 11466... 12482
v Saints... 11111... 13108... 7076... 8442... 8268
----------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL... 57545... 62883... 56955... 55169... 56402
% change............ -8.49... +1.03.... +4.31.... +2.03
----------------------------------------------------------------

Nevertheless, the fact remains that SL home attendances against London & Catalan (who both bring next to no fans to their away games) has shown a significant percentage decrease which mirrors percentage decline in SL attendances overall in 2013 compared to the same fixtures last year.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:11 pm  

JonB95 wrote:

Sorry about this, it might sound a bit blunt, I really don't know how to word it... well, the thing is..

get a life.

Feel free to disengage from this thread completely if the stats being provided are continuing to make you feel very uncomfortable.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:07 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

So having ignored a good news story about ticket sales, you have now spent two pages speculating on a made up situation where they have been sold on a sale or return basis.
Pretty much par for the course.

Let's hope you're right and I'm wrong....but unlike you, who is prepared to swallow anything and everything released and who will applaud the poop TV deal, the lack of any major sponsor and the silence after the initial bluster from the RLWC press department, I choose to look at all the facts available.

60% of 40k sales for the final is 24,000 first timers....seriously....24,000 people who've never attended an International RL game, CC Final or Grand Final before have suddenly decided to purchase tickets to the RLWC Final over 8 months ahead of the event?
Smokey TA......do you believe in the tooth fairy as well?

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:57 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

Let's hope you're right and I'm wrong....but unlike you, who is prepared to swallow anything and everything released and who will applaud the poop TV deal, the lack of any major sponsor and the silence after the initial bluster from the RLWC press department, I choose to look at all the facts available.

60% of 40k sales for the final is 24,000 first timers....seriously....24,000 people who've never attended an International RL game, CC Final or Grand Final before have suddenly decided to purchase tickets to the RLWC Final over 8 months ahead of the event?
Smokey TA......do you believe in the tooth fairy as well?

He is the tooth fairy

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:42 pm  

William Eve wrote:

Nearly 10K for a home game against Wigan... wow.

The Bulls home attendance for the Wigan game was over 23% down on last year. Given that the Bulls home attendances this season have been down by over 33% (v Salford)... down by over 23% (v Hull KR)... down by over 27% (v Saints)... and down by over 29% (v Castleford)... then may I ask if it was pisssing it down in a howling gale at all those other Bulls home games too?

Or are you just talking bollox as per usual?

I think comparing our attendances to last years is pointless. We sold 10k season tickets last year, so each attendance started at that, with paying spectators added on top.

Last year we supposedly got 10k for the London game, even though the stand behind the sticks was empty. Against Wigan the stand behind the sticks had at least 2k wigan fans, yet the London game last year was announced as more.

It's not really possible to tell whether they are actual more people in the stadium this year than last

Either way the Bulls will be making more money this year

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:52 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

Let's hope you're right and I'm wrong....but unlike you, who is prepared to swallow anything and everything released and who will applaud the poop TV deal

At least all those unsold rows of empty seats at the RLWC won't be quite so visible as they'll be broadcast in standard definition on Premier Sports.

gutterfax wrote:

the lack of any major sponsor and the silence after the initial bluster from the RLWC press department, I choose to look at all the facts available.

The bluster on RLWC ticket sales this year has replaced the bluster on SL attendances last year.

gutterfax wrote:

60% of 40k sales for the final is 24,000 first timers....seriously....24,000 people who've never attended an International RL game, CC Final or Grand Final before have suddenly decided to purchase tickets to the RLWC Final over 8 months ahead of the event?

Exactly. If they are going to tell a few exaggerated porkies with regard to RLWC ticket sales, at least make them appear credible as opposed to incredible.

gutterfax wrote:

Smokey TA......do you believe in the tooth fairy as well?

Despite being the recipient of close to bugger all money under his pillow in exchange for his last few baby teeth during the pre-Super Teeth era, it's worth noting that immediately after was characterised by a period of steady growth and that's the positive he intends to focus on instead.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:04 pm  

Bull Mania wrote:

I think comparing our attendances to last years is pointless. We sold 10k season tickets last year, so each attendance started at that, with paying spectators added on top.

The RFL were more than happy to broadcast attendance comparisons in previous seasons, even though they knew some of those higher attendances were hiked up via the sale of ridiculously discounted season tickets at Bradford and elsewhere.

Bull Mania wrote:

Either way the Bulls will be making more money this year

Good, if that's the case. It's a step in the right direction. Flogging the game cheap to fans and sponsors (in Stobart's case, for free!) has led to everyone viewing the game as cheap.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:07 am  

William Eve wrote:

Despite being the recipient of close to bugger all money under his pillow in exchange for his last few baby teeth during the pre-Super Teeth era, it's worth noting that immediately after was characterised by a period of steady growth and that's the positive he intends to focus on instead.

The biggest problem faced by the RLWC 2013 organisers now is scheduling the games that are live on the BBC and deciding if they go head to head with SKY TV.......SKY have a massive casual sports fan audience, they will not mention the RLWC from the day after the Grand Final.....and the BBC's record of promoting RL is, shall we say, not brilliant!

November 2nd and chances are England v Australia at Twickenham will be a 3pm KO.....do the RLWC gamble with an evening KO? Same problem the weekend after.....Argentina at Twickenham probably 3pm again.....do they schdule an evening KO for the Fiji game?
Saturday the 16th is the probable QF tie for England......whilst down in Twickenham, the All Blacks are in town.....again, what time do theY schedule KO for.

It is NOW VITAL that the games at Hull, Huddersfield and Wigan are sold out.........because as sure as day follows night, when it comes to news programmes watched by millions, highlights from a packed Twickenham followed by banks of empty seats from a RLWC QF featuring Englandis not an image the RFL want seen across the country.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:08 am  

gutterfax wrote:

Let's hope you're right and I'm wrong....but unlike you, who is prepared to swallow anything and everything released and who will applaud the poop TV deal, the lack of any major sponsor and the silence after the initial bluster from the RLWC press department, I choose to look at all the facts available.

There aren’t any further facts. Thats why im not worried about them. Its not about swallowing everything I am told, its about not inventing problems in my head and worrying about them. The tickets may be sale or return. They may have all been sold to one really rich guy who likes his space. They may be made of crackers and 40k have been eaten by parrots and this is all a big ruse to hide that fact. But as there is no supporting evidence for any of these possibilities, there is no point worrying about them.

60% of 40k sales for the final is 24,000 first timers....seriously....24,000 people who've never attended an International RL game, CC Final or Grand Final before have suddenly decided to purchase tickets to the RLWC Final over 8 months ahead of the event?
Smokey TA......do you believe in the tooth fairy as well?

or someone who had been to those games before used a different account to buy them. Or a different person in the group bought them, or people who usually buy direct from their club bought them, or people who usually go to a ticket office on the day bought them on-line for the first time, or people who wanted to take advantage of the offers bought them earlier than they usually would, through a different source to what they usually would. I dont think an account under my name has bought tickets for a CC final, GF, MM weekend, or International RL game before, a mate usually gets them for me. I know i have booked tickets for the WC.

Yeah its a bit of spin but for f'cks sake, thats what they are paid to do. People complain constantly, incessently, about the way the game is presented in the media, they get a good news story out and people complain they are lying or its just 'spin', or bluster. They literally can't win.

Whats even more astounding is the people who think they are doing us a favour by pointing this out, like their laser like insight is pointing out that this is the case for the first time ever. They are the RFL, it is their job to present the game in the best light it can. They are paid to do it. It is good for the game for them to do it. It benefits everyone. God knows why they have to battle against a weirdly obsessed small minority of fans whose obsession is to try and do the exact opposite.

Rugby League, with friends like these...........

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:24 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

<snip> Its irrelevant because i couldnt care how they are sold. If by travel companies, corporates, whatever its of no consequence. Tickets sold are sold, thats what we are setting out to do sell tickets. <snip>

Sold *by* travel companies is fine. "Sold" *to* a travel company isn't the same thing, until the ticket is bought by a fan. It may be. I don't know. It would be good to know. If the 'sales' are in the hands of fans already, excellent news. If a significant number of the 'sales' are just distributions to travel companies, that's not as good. That's why I'm neither criticizing nor applauding the ticket sales to date.

I'm not complaining about the RFL 'spinning' ticket sales - they should do exactly that. Most people on here however are close enough and care enough about the game to be interested in the stuff behind the spin, and that's what's under discussion. I thought this was a discussion board about the sport, not a cheerleading section for the RFL's ( perfectly justified I might add) spin.