Whoever is debating that Ellis isn't a good player is quite simply wrong. Tim Sheens said he was the best dollar for dollar signing the club has ever had. He has been awarded Wests player of the year for 09 and 10. He's probably in the top 5 forwards in the NRL. I'd say the list would be: Gallen, Ellis, Burgess, Thaiday, Scott. (Thats just my opinion)
If Sam Burgess was fit Ellis should play in the centres, as if he had an Inglis running at him he would be able to handle it. If Inglis ran at lets say Shenton, I would be embarassed to see what happens. But because Burgess is injured I think Ellis needs to go back into the second row along side Westwood because I don't think we would be able to put someone in there who would get through as much work as him.
Reed is a good player, regardless if he has only played 20ish games in the NRL he has made the step up comfortably and you would think he would of been playing in the position for the last 3 years in the NRL. If we could get him for England he should go straight in. If he has been mentioned playing origin he is clearly a good player.
People mention our backline being exceptionally weak. The Aus/NZ backline run through our three quarters which is why we lose games. If we sort our defence out we may have a the slightest of chance. If we had everyone fit, and who is eligible for England I would play:
Sam Tomkins Tom Briscoe Jack Reed Gareth Ellis Jermaine Mcgilvary Gareth Widdop Danny Brough James Graham James Roby Adrian Morley Sam Burgess Ben Westwood Sean Oloughlin
Eorl Crabtree Lee Mossop Luke Burgess Jonny Lomax
Well coached, and prepared we could have a chance against the Aussies/NZ. But our coach is useless.
Whoever is debating that Ellis isn't a good player is quite simply wrong. Tim Sheens said he was the best dollar for dollar signing the club has ever had. He has been awarded Wests player of the year for 09 and 10. He's probably in the top 5 forwards in the NRL. I'd say the list would be: Gallen, Ellis, Burgess, Thaiday, Scott. (Thats just my opinion)
If Sam Burgess was fit Ellis should play in the centres, as if he had an Inglis running at him he would be able to handle it. If Inglis ran at lets say Shenton, I would be embarassed to see what happens. But because Burgess is injured I think Ellis needs to go back into the second row along side Westwood because I don't think we would be able to put someone in there who would get through as much work as him.
Reed is a good player, regardless if he has only played 20ish games in the NRL he has made the step up comfortably and you would think he would of been playing in the position for the last 3 years in the NRL. If we could get him for England he should go straight in. If he has been mentioned playing origin he is clearly a good player.
People mention our backline being exceptionally weak. The Aus/NZ backline run through our three quarters which is why we lose games. If we sort our defence out we may have a the slightest of chance. If we had everyone fit, and who is eligible for England I would play:
Sam Tomkins Tom Briscoe Jack Reed Gareth Ellis Jermaine Mcgilvary Gareth Widdop Danny Brough James Graham James Roby Adrian Morley Sam Burgess Ben Westwood Sean Oloughlin
Eorl Crabtree Lee Mossop Luke Burgess Jonny Lomax
Well coached, and prepared we could have a chance against the Aussies/NZ. But our coach is useless.
That does look a strong side
A couple of comments
I haven’t seen much at all of Reed so I can’t really comment on him but he would have to be special to get straight into an international side after 20ish first grade games. Also, I don’t think Luke Burgess was close to an international call up when in Super League so I am not sure why a handful of games in the NRL would get him a spot. Carvell would be a better bet for me as his go forward game is much better
Finally, while I am very pleased that Lomax is in the squad and the half back pair should be any two of Lomax, Widdop and Brough (best set of half backs England have had for a long time). I would go with Robinson on the bench due to his impact from dummy half and ability to cover the in halves
I haven’t seen much at all of Reed so I can’t really comment on him but he would have to be special to get straight into an international side after 20ish first grade games. Also, I don’t think Luke Burgess was close to an international call up when in Super League so I am not sure why a handful of games in the NRL would get him a spot. Carvell would be a better bet for me as his go forward game is much better
Finally, while I am very pleased that Lomax is in the squad and the half back pair should be any two of Lomax, Widdop and Brough (best set of half backs England have had for a long time). I would go with Robinson on the bench due to his impact from dummy half and ability to cover the in halves
Carvell has been immense when I've seen him this season.
Regarding Lomax, his inclusion could be a good shout. I would perhaps conceed there's better out and out 7s as (for a start) he doesn't have a kicking game, so whoever partners him would need to, but he's a very rumbustuous and fearless player and doesn't mind doing the work in close proximity of the defending forwards, he's also strong enough to get by in those situations. When your up against the best in the world, your not going to have much freedom, so these talents could be a real asset.
I haven’t seen much at all of Reed so I can’t really comment on him but he would have to be special to get straight into an international side after 20ish first grade games. Also, I don’t think Luke Burgess was close to an international call up when in Super League so I am not sure why a handful of games in the NRL would get him a spot. Carvell would be a better bet for me as his go forward game is much better
Finally, while I am very pleased that Lomax is in the squad and the half back pair should be any two of Lomax, Widdop and Brough (best set of half backs England have had for a long time). I would go with Robinson on the bench due to his impact from dummy half and ability to cover the in halves
I picked Lomax over Robinson as he can also play in the outside backs where he started when he broke into the Saints team. I don't think we need an interchange hooker as Roby can play 80 minutes, if he can do that at international level is something different all together. Reason why I picked Burgess is because he is young, Carvell is in his 30's and isn't the future of our English game. The 1 - 7 is still young, (apart from Brough and Ellis) So the majority of it will still be playing and getting better for the 2013 world cup. When Watkins is ready for International level i'd put him at centre and put Ellis back in the pack where he belongs, but I've put him at centre for now because I don't think there is anyone else good enough in attack and defence to do a job at international level.
I don't think we have much chance at the 4N, but I think we will come 2013.
I haven’t seen much at all of Reed so I can’t really comment on him but he would have to be special to get straight into an international side after 20ish first grade games.
How many first grade games had Gareth Widdop played before his England debut?
How many first grade games had Gareth Widdop played before his England debut?
I can't work out if you are posting this in support of my argument or against it
While Widdop is a good player and a pretty good bet for the 4 Nations this year after a second (and full) year in the NRL, it is fair to say he was probably thrown into the international game too early last year
