Re: Danny McGuire's disallowed try : Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:02 pm  

Starbug wrote:

Your view is total bollox , he knocked on , it doesn't matter what you assume he was intending to do

He knocked on

Explain to me your understanding of why his actions constituted a knock on.

Re: Danny McGuire's disallowed try : Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:42 pm  

Steve Fox wrote:

Explain to me your understanding of why his actions constituted a knock on.

He lost control of the football. He went to kick it, Tomkins drew his arm back forcing him to lose control of the ball, as a last ditch attempt he took a wild swing at the ball, by some fluke he managed to kick it [After the ball had touched the floor] and went in for the 'try'.

If any player loses control of the football in a forward motion and it touches the floor or another player it is automatically deemed a knock on. McGuire had no control of that football, and it was only by chance he managed to get his foot to it.

Nobody is saying he wasn't intending to kick it, Your argument is both inane and ridiculous at the same time.

Answer me this, had the ball bounced six inches in the air and them McGuire kicked it, would it still have been a try, in your eyes?

Re: Danny McGuire's disallowed try : Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:48 pm  

Starbug wrote:

But that's the point , it doesn't matter what he or anybody else thinks he was attempting , he dropped the ball , and that is a knock on

Yes it does matter. If the VR thought McGuire had been attempting a drop kick then he would have given play on as (as Steve Fox has pointed out) it would have qualified as a drop kick. Since McGuire was obviously attempting a grubber or some other type of kick and was disrupted by Tomkins effort then it was rightly given as a knock-on. In this case, like in several rules in RL, McGuire's intentions were vital to the correct decision being reached.

I also think that if this were a non-VR game that the try would have been given.

Re: Danny McGuire's disallowed try : Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:54 pm  

Odemwingie wrote:

Well the first comment was a joke and the second comment was not exactly outrageous. Or is calling someone a cheat outrageous to you? Clearly not, Leeds fans boo Tomkins for apparently being a cheat. I don't see Tomkins jumping into people in the air though, or tripping people up when a try is on the way, or chicken winging, or celebrating a try that was never scored to try and con the ref. I also don't see Tomkins having such shocking defence as McGuire either.... he got boomed for the charnley try.

I also don't see any Leeds fans hoping Sam Tomkins career is over. But hey, most rugby league fans can keep things in perspective.

Re: Danny McGuire's disallowed try : Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:03 am  

Him wrote:

Yes it does matter. If the VR thought McGuire had been attempting a drop kick then he would have given play on as (as Steve Fox has pointed out) it would have qualified as a drop kick. Since McGuire was obviously attempting a grubber or some other type of kick and was disrupted by Tomkins effort then it was rightly given as a knock-on. In this case, like in several rules in RL, McGuire's intentions were vital to the correct decision being reached.

I also think that if this were a non-VR game that the try would have been given.

His intentions are irrelevant , he knocked on , the touch judge saw that he knocked on and asked Mr Alibert to check with the VR , if it had not been a televised game there would have been an in goal touch judge , he most likely would have seen it as well , even in real time I said he knocked on

Re: Danny McGuire's disallowed try : Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:04 am  

Steve Fox wrote:

Explain to me your understanding of why his actions constituted a knock on.

He dropped the ball

Re: Danny McGuire's disallowed try : Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:08 am  

The Leeds players walking forward before the decision was shown is enough proof for me that it was a knock on.

Re: Danny McGuire's disallowed try : Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:31 am  

Starbug wrote:

His intentions are irrelevant , he knocked on , the touch judge saw that he knocked on and asked Mr Alibert to check with the VR , if it had not been a televised game there would have been an in goal touch judge , he most likely would have seen it as well , even in real time I said he knocked on

In which case every drop kick is also a knock on by that logic.

Re: Danny McGuire's disallowed try : Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:11 am  

Him wrote:

In which case every drop kick is also a knock on by that logic.

In theory yes , something I have pointed out on here before

Re: Danny McGuire's disallowed try : Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:35 am  

Him wrote:

In which case every drop kick is also a knock on by that logic.

There is no other use of a a drop kick in open play other than to go for goal. I can't find where I've seen it, but I was told about this when I did a referee's course. Any other time is a knock on.

It's not difficult to police. Similar rules are used without controversy in the game. A charge down isn't a knock on, but if he tries to catch in and then drops it it is.
A penalty kick from a tee has to be an attempt at goal, they can't kick for the corner.

So a combination of the two. A drop kick in open play is a knock on unless they are going for goal.
I have never seen one intentional incident where someone has used a drop kick in open play that wasn't a goal attempt.