Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:02 am  

Starbug wrote:

Because if attendances had risen, so would their profits

As to the rest, the usual ' Waffle '

Clearly not. 2011 had higher attendances but lower profits. 2012 lower attendances and higher profits. You have been unequivocally shown to be wrong.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:13 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

going to be. Thats what i said. As you are aware. And they were a few weeks back.

I believe you actually said... "on course to be"... despite the evidence available so far failing to indicate that particular favourable course. It was still an assertion on your part nonetheless which requires evidence to back it up.

SmokeyTA wrote:

When you are using such a small sample size, one or a few outlying results can change the picture quite dramatically. Which is why only a moron, or a troll, would try to use such a small sample size. You can choose which one you are. I dont mind.

That sample size is getting bigger every week... exciting, innit?

However, at what point does the sample size become no longer moronic? And how moronic were the RFL's press announcements on attendances last year, given they were gobbing off about them with a miniscule Round 1 sample size and loaded comparison, quickly followed by a bizarre Round 2 to 5 sample size which didn't even add up or make much sense?

SmokeyTA wrote:

Translation: I cant find a way to spin that stat to look worse. I cant find a way of saying that an increase of a whole 157 per game over the rest of the year would result in the 2nd best attended season in the history of the game is something to worry about. So ill ignore it and talk about something else. Some way that my nonsense cherry picked incomplete stats can unimaginatively, be used to troll with.

How exactly does comparing this years SL attendances with the exact same fixtures between the exact same teams last year amount to a troll?

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:36 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Clearly not. 2011 had higher attendances but lower profits. 2012 lower attendances and higher profits. You have been unequivocally shown to be wrong.

What goes into the P&L in any one year could be complex with all kinds of timing issues. If you choose a narrow time window then its easy to say that attenadances don't correlate with profit. But the fact remains ( and only an absolute idiot couldn't see this - not that that gives me hope in your case ), an extra ticket sold for an empty seat is more or less pure profit. There are very tiny extra operating costs on the day per extra person ( more stewards, etc.)

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:13 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Clearly not. 2011 had higher attendances but lower profits. 2012 lower attendances and higher profits. You have been unequivocally shown to be wrong.

Are you a complete idiot? , you are suggesting that if more people had attended, you wouldnt have taken more income therefore made more profits on a fixed cost event

Your posts are becoming more and more ridiculous day by day

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:31 am  

William Eve wrote:

I believe you actually said... "on course to be"... despite the evidence available so far failing to indicate that particular favourable course. It was still an assertion on your part nonetheless which requires evidence to back it up.

Yes, well done on noticing that 'going to be' and 'on course to be' are pretty much the same thing. Its pretty much the first thing someone hasnt had to correct you on.

That sample size is getting bigger every week... exciting, innit?

not really.

However, at what point does the sample size become no longer moronic? And how moronic were the RFL's press announcements on attendances last year, given they were gobbing off about them with a miniscule Round 1 sample size and loaded comparison, quickly followed by a bizarre Round 2 to 5 sample size which didn't even add up or make much sense?

The sample size will no longer be moronic when we actually have a full and valid comparison. When our comparison is no longer needing qualifying statements, and fixtures being taken out and added in. When we have actually had the fixtures would probably be the best starting point.

And yes the RFL did make statements showing the game in a positive light and using positive news as a positive. Yes The RFL did come out with statements saying that the games had good attendances when they did even if the comparison wasn’t 100% complete. Yet the RFL get paid lots of money to show the game in a positive light, they get paid to sell it and present a positive image of it in the media, to talk about it positively? No-one is paying you to do the opposite, I can again, only question why you would want to go so far out of your way to do so?

How exactly does comparing this years SL attendances with the exact same fixtures between the exact same teams last year amount to a troll?

They arent the exact same fixtures, there may be the same teams playing but they are playing at different times of the year, under different circumstances with different things affecting them. These things are generally smoothed out over the course of the year. Thats why we dont only look at rouynd 18 in 2011 for instance, we look at the entire season, because the entire season is a larger sample size giving us more accurate results.

HTH

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:36 am  

RLBandit wrote:

What goes into the P&L in any one year could be complex with all kinds of timing issues. If you choose a narrow time window then its easy to say that attenadances don't correlate with profit. But the fact remains ( and only an absolute idiot couldn't see this - not that that gives me hope in your case ), an extra ticket sold for an empty seat is more or less pure profit. There are very tiny extra operating costs on the day per extra person ( more stewards, etc.)

Firstly, the years are always the same. The run from the same time to the same time. They are the same 365 days, any timing issues relevant one year, will likely be relevant the next year.

Secondly, It is telling that you accept that when the stats don’t back up your bias, you make excuses for them. You tell us why they could be wrong. Why we shouldn’t look at them in isolation. Why such a small sample size can be affected by one off issues and outliers. When the stats back up your bias however……………………………………………


You really do a fantastic job of arguing against your own standpoints.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:48 am  

Starbug wrote:

Are you a complete idiot? , you are suggesting that if more people had attended, you wouldnt have taken more income therefore made more profits on a fixed cost event

Your posts are becoming more and more ridiculous day by day

A game isnt a fixed cost event. The more people who attend, the more it costs to stage. Not to mention the actual and fairly obvious cost of going out and attracting these people.

Surely you cant have got to the advanced age you have got to without someone explaining diseconomies of scale to you?

Now, neither I, nor you, know the scaleability of the Leeds Rhinos current business plan, we don’t the know the economies or diseconomies of scale, we don’t know the revenue streams or the profitability of different types of customers.

What we do know, is that with lower attendances in 2012, Leeds made more money than in 2011. What we also know is that Leeds posted these record profits having won 5 grand finals in the last 6 years, having won 6 in 9 years, having appeared in 7 in 9 years, having appeared in 4 challenge cup finals, 7 World Club Challenges, That they have done so whilst investing in a stadium they own, a stadium which makes them money. Having done so with one of, if not the, best youth development system in the country. We know this has happened and that the Rhinos have made profits doing it. We know that in that time Leigh were promoted to SL and won 2 games. We know that they very nearly went kaput and should have been relegated to the lowest semi-pro level of the game.

Given what we know, Im pretty sure that Gary Hetherington really doesn’t care if you think he would have made more profits had he done something differently. Im sure your critique and advice is filed under ‘know nothings moaning’-

[Durham Giant]

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:07 am  

Shock News

Wire V s Giants crowd lower than last year.

Wiliam Eve says this is proof that attendances are down although no reason given why.

RL Bandit states it was not snowing in 2011 therefore any comparison is worthless.

Starbug says prices of tickets may have put people off but change in attendances does not affect profits as more money made.

Smokey criticses Starbug in large post. No one reads it as they feel it is unfair to take sides in a divorce. Starbug wants the chiuaha but Smokey will not hand dog over unless he gets his Robert Kappa print back.

Giant Daz says our support is getting better not fair to blame decent Giants fans


Ferocious Aardvark emphasises a single point although not sure why.

Leaguefan says attendances are a product of Souperdouper league.

Wigan fan blames salary cap.

Littlerich says lack of P & R is the problem and if Halifax were in superleague it would be better.

20 other RL fans blame RFL to moving to summer rugby for making fans soft and not prepared to go out in cold weather.

Durham Giant says Baa.

But despite that the thread goes on for another 60 pages.

Martyn Sadler reports that game in Warington goes ahead as hot air spouted by RL fans raises temperatures by two degrees and lifts snow from Pennines area.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:16 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Firstly, the years are always the same. The run from the same time to the same time. They are the same 365 days, any timing issues relevant one year, will likely be relevant the next year.

Secondly, It is telling that you accept that when the stats don’t back up your bias, you make excuses for them. You tell us why they could be wrong. Why we shouldn’t look at them in isolation. Why such a small sample size can be affected by one off issues and outliers. When the stats back up your bias however……………………………………………


You really do a fantastic job of arguing against your own standpoints.

You don't really understand accounting do you? Have a chat with Nigel next time you're cleaning his office, he'll explain it to you.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:30 am  

RLBandit wrote:

You don't really understand accounting do you? Have a chat with Nigel next time you're cleaning his office, he'll explain it to you.

Go on then superstar, explain to us why ‘timing issues’ would lead the Rhinos to declare a record profit?

This should be funny