Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:54 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

The figure quoted at the stadium was 11,200, which is lower than the one quoted in this thread and lower than the gate for the same fixture last season. But Saints have dropped around 3,000 on last season for each of their home games so far, which I suppose indicates just how many people gave the new stadium all of one season's chance to impress!

I think for Saints, some success or a cup run will see the fans flocking back, this is not the case for some other clubs ie. Salford, Cas, London, Huddersfield. Even Leeds on the back of 2 GF wins are dropping crowd numbers !

There does seem to be a general conensus that the old play off system was better for 2 reasons.
Favouring the teams that finished first and second, plus, not rewarding mediocrity.
Can you imagine what would happen if a team finishing 7th or 8th actually won the GF ?

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:57 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

The figure quoted at the stadium was 11,200, which is lower than the one quoted in this thread and lower than the gate for the same fixture last season.

That's two SL fixtures over the weekend that have had their official attendances amended upwards. An officially announced attendance of 11,200 at Langtree Park is later amended to 12,105... and 4,521 announced at Wheldon Rd is later amended to 4,751. I can only assume the discrepancies are to account for season ticket holders who didn't actually attend.

SaintsFan wrote:

But Saints have dropped around 3,000 on last season for each of their home games so far, which I suppose indicates just how many people gave the new stadium all of one season's chance to impress!

Judging by a lot of comments from Saints fans, the new stadium isn't going down well at all among the supporters. It lacks character and atmosphere. They'd return to Knowsley Rd if it was still an option.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:16 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

There does seem to be a general conensus that the old play off system was better for 2 reasons.
Favouring the teams that finished first and second, plus, not rewarding mediocrity.
Can you imagine what would happen if a team finishing 7th or 8th actually won the GF ?

.......this again.

It still does, Wigan ('12) and Wire ('11) both had a home game to reach the GF, no different than when it was 5 team playoffs. And even as a Leeds fan I can admit that if Tomkins played in the Playoff Semi, then Wigan qualify for the GF most probably so you end up with 1st vs 2nd.......like we did in 2009 and 2010 UNDER the 8 team playoff system.

- And do people REALLY believe that teams can win it from 7th or 8th?
- Does anybody really think that if any other team finishes 5th this year that they'll be able to do what Leeds did?
- If it's so easy the route from 5th then why didn't Wakey ('09) or Hudds ('10) win or even reach the GF?
- Why hasn't any team that has finished 6th (essentially the same route as 5th) never reached a GF?
- Do people not think that reaching 5 GF's (and winning 4) in the previous 7 years was a massive factor in Leeds then being able to do it from 5th twice and that the chances of other teams doing it without this experience is very slim?
- No coincedence that they only team to reach from 3rd (during 8 team era) is Saints (2011), a team that had reached the last FIVE GF's?
- The doomed 4th place team.....HKR ('09), Leeds ('10), Hudds ('11), Catalans ('12)......guess which is the only team to reach the final 4 of the Playoffs out of them?
- Only once has the team finishing 6th even got to within 80 mins of the GF, Wigan ('09)......but they also managed to do that under the 6 team playoff in 2007.

People can blame the format but at the end of the day the teams that should've been reaching and winning the GF from 1st the last 2 years (Wigan and Wire) simply haven't perform well enough in Playoff in the last 2 years.
Wigan - P5 W2 L3
Wire - P6 W3 L3

Of those 11 games
- vs Leeds & Saints - P7 W1 L6
- vs other teams - P4 W4 L0

Leeds and Saints when finishing 1st & 2nd in the 8 team Playoffs
- P9 W7 L2 (One being Leeds beating Saints in the '09 Final)

Simply put, Leeds and Saints just perform better in the Playoffs, it took a extremely good 2nd 40mins by Wire at Langtree Park to finally break that and Saints really should've been out of sight by half-time in that one. People can talk about Leeds being mediocre but during the Playoffs last year Wire came within 9 points of the title and in 4 games only really played good for 1 solitary half of rugby.

And regarding attendances, if the problem of 2013 being lower is being aimed at Leeds winning last years GF from 5th.......then explain the comparison year (2012) being used in this argument to illustrate it, because we went into that season under the same circumstances of Leeds winning the GF from 5th in 2011.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:17 pm  

William Eve wrote:

That's two SL fixtures over the weekend that have had their official attendances amended upwards. An officially announced attendance of 11,200 at Langtree Park is later amended to 12,105... and 4,521 announced at Wheldon Rd is later amended to 4,751. I can only assume the discrepancies are to account for season ticket holders who didn't actually attend.

Judging by a lot of comments from Saints fans, the new stadium isn't going down well at all among the supporters. It lacks character and atmosphere. They'd return to Knowsley Rd if it was still an option.

I would not return to Knowsley Road.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:28 pm  

William Eve wrote:

Judging by a lot of comments from Saints fans, the new stadium isn't going down well at all among the supporters. It lacks character and atmosphere. They'd return to Knowsley Rd if it was still an option.

Yet even if the lower figure of 11,200 is correct that is still better than any Saints/Wakey crowd at Knowsley Road during the SL era.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:39 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

:SLEEPY: .......this again.

It still does, Wigan ('12) and Wire ('11) both had a home game to reach the GF, no different than when it was 5 team playoffs. And even as a Leeds fan I can admit that if Tomkins played in the Playoff Semi, then Wigan qualify for the GF most probably so you end up with 1st vs 2nd.......like we did in 2009 and 2010 UNDER the 8 team playoff system.

- And do people REALLY believe that teams can win it from 7th or 8th?
- Does anybody really think that if any other team finishes 5th this year that they'll be able to do what Leeds did?
- If it's so easy the route from 5th then why didn't Wakey ('09) or Hudds ('10) win or even reach the GF?
- Why hasn't any team that has finished 6th (essentially the same route as 5th) never reached a GF?
- Do people not think that reaching 5 GF's (and winning 4) in the previous 7 years was a massive factor in Leeds then being able to do it from 5th twice and that the chances of other teams doing it without this experience is very slim?
- No coincedence that they only team to reach from 3rd (during 8 team era) is Saints (2011), a team that had reached the last FIVE GF's?
- The doomed 4th place team.....HKR ('09), Leeds ('10), Hudds ('11), Catalans ('12)......guess which is the only team to reach the final 4 of the Playoffs out of them?
- Only once has the team finishing 6th even got to within 80 mins of the GF, Wigan ('09)......but they also managed to do that under the 6 team playoff in 2007.

People can blame the format but at the end of the day the teams that should've been reaching and winning the GF from 1st the last 2 years (Wigan and Wire) simply haven't perform well enough in Playoff in the last 2 years.
Wigan - P5 W2 L3
Wire - P6 W3 L3

Of those 11 games
- vs Leeds & Saints - P7 W1 L6
- vs other teams - P4 W4 L0

Leeds and Saints when finishing 1st & 2nd in the 8 team Playoffs
- P9 W7 L2 (One being Leeds beating Saints in the '09 Final)

Simply put, Leeds and Saints just perform better in the Playoffs, it took a extremely good 2nd 40mins by Wire at Langtree Park to finally break that and Saints really should've been out of sight by half-time in that one. People can talk about Leeds being mediocre but during the Playoffs last year Wire came within 9 points of the title and in 4 games only really played good for 1 solitary half of rugby.

And regarding attendances, if the problem of 2013 being lower is being aimed at Leeds winning last years GF from 5th.......then explain the comparison year (2012) being used in this argument to illustrate it, because we went into that season under the same circumstances of Leeds winning the GF from 5th in 2011.

I'm sorry that you are a Leeds fan and that you dont see anything "wrong" for a team to finish 5th from 14 in the regular season and be crowned champions.
Although there is no doubt that Leeds have done exceptionally well to win the comp from 5th twice on the bounce, do you think this enhances the competition, or perhaps devalues it slightly, when the Champions finished 10 points behind the league leaders.
Call me old school but it just doesn't sit comfortably when the champion team finishes a third of the way down the table.
You may argue that it is an extraordinary achievement, which it certainly is, but that doesn't mean that it detracts from the 27 weekly rounds.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:27 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I'm sorry that you are a Leeds fan and that you dont see anything "wrong" for a team to finish 5th from 14 in the regular season and be crowned champions.
Although there is no doubt that Leeds have done exceptionally well to win the comp from 5th twice on the bounce, do you think this enhances the competition, or perhaps devalues it slightly, when the Champions finished 10 points behind the league leaders.
Call me old school but it just doesn't sit comfortably when the champion team finishes a third of the way down the table.
You may argue that it is an extraordinary achievement, which it certainly is, but that doesn't mean that it detracts from the 27 weekly rounds.

I've neither used the words ''nothing wrong'' nor ''extraordinary achievement'', in think I highlighted how I thought we got a slice of luck with Tomkins being injured.

So I didn't say I don't find nothing wrong with it, I do. But what I find wrong is how poorly other teams have played in the Playoffs over the years when the title is within reach. Bradford finished 10 points behind the leaders in 2005 and lost 5 more games than the leaders (the same as Leeds in 2012) but I didn't see the same complaints as we do now back then.

As for detracting from the regular season, since 1996 (when SL begin) in football's Championship (2nd tier), the team finishing 3rd has only won the playoffs (and been promoted) 7 times in 17 years, yet this league is often referred to as being as exciting as the Premiership and doesn't suffer at all from this format........I guess it's different folks outlook on life

And how will less Playoff spots help some of the worst crowd offenders so far this year (Salford, London, Bradford), the latter 2 were given slim hope of maybe hitting the top 8, if it was down to top 5 they'd have had no chance and would probably be getting even less home fans to games. Would more Cas fans have turned out against London at the weekend? No. Would more Hudds fans be turning up if we did top 5? They haven't done well in top 8 playoffs even though its 'easier' so would a 'tougher' playoff format see fans flocking for Season Tickets?

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:51 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

I've neither used the words ''nothing wrong'' nor ''extraordinary achievement'', in think I highlighted how I thought we got a slice of luck with Tomkins being injured.

So I didn't say I don't find nothing wrong with it, I do. But what I find wrong is how poorly other teams have played in the Playoffs over the years when the title is within reach. Bradford finished 10 points behind the leaders in 2005 and lost 5 more games than the leaders (the same as Leeds in 2012) but I didn't see the same complaints as we do now back then.

As for detracting from the regular season, since 1996 (when SL begin) in football's Championship (2nd tier), the team finishing 3rd has only won the playoffs (and been promoted) 7 times in 17 years, yet this league is often referred to as being as exciting as the Premiership and doesn't suffer at all from this format........I guess it's different folks outlook on life

And how will less Playoff spots help some of the worst crowd offenders so far this year (Salford, London, Bradford), the latter 2 were given slim hope of maybe hitting the top 8, if it was down to top 5 they'd have had no chance and would probably be getting even less home fans to games. Would more Cas fans have turned out against London at the weekend? No. Would more Hudds fans be turning up if we did top 5? They haven't done well in top 8 playoffs even though its 'easier' so would a 'tougher' playoff format see fans flocking for Season Tickets?

The level of apathy from the Leeds fans for the Leeds Wakefield play off last season was incredible.
Despite a 3000 strong contingent of Wakefield fans, who were riding high on the back of 7 straight wins, the crowd at Headingley was only 8000+, there were more people there for the Boxing Day trial match !

Regarding the play offs, the teames finishing 7/8th rarely win their game and it is something of a filler.
We should revert to top 5 or 6, which gives the top teams slightly less chance of an automatic spot, which should prevent the type of games such as Wigan at Widnes last season, when several players were rested and also means that a team from the bottom half of the league does not qualify for the finals series.

There are many reasons for some of the poor crowds and it is the individual clubs responsibility to maximise their own support and revenues and although almost every team in the comp is capable of making the 8, the issues with the make up of play offs do reduce the value of the competition and that cant be right.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:59 pm  

Top 4 play-offs...(gotta stop Leeds somehow)

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:16 pm  

Definitely time for two pro leagues of ten then