Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:36 pm  

headhunter wrote:

Huh? If any player was blindsided with an off-the-ball attack to the head then I would expect them to swing back, especially in a derby match. Punching the man on the ground was a step too far but the first punch was fully justified. And what Flower did initially (shoving Hohaia while chasing a kick) in no way justified Hohaia chasing after Flower in order to smash him in the jaw. If Hohaia was a bigger man he would have caused serious injury, and then he would be the one being painted as a monster.

How do you know it was just a little shove though? The only shots there are of that are where the camera is zoomed right out. There's no close up slow motion video of it floating around like the one you linked, so no one knows the extent of it really, no matter what they say.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:07 pm  

Loyal Leeds Fan wrote:

How do you know it was just a little shove though? The only shots there are of that are where the camera is zoomed right out. There's no close up slow motion video of it floating around like the one you linked, so no one knows the extent of it really, no matter what they say.

They were chasing the ball, Hohaia moved into his path and Flower knocked him out of the way. No doubt there was physicality and maybe Hohaia was unhappy with the contact but it obviously wasn't intended as an attack on Hohaia, it was just part of the game whereas Hohaia chasing after Flower to smash him in the jaw clearly wasn't.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:14 pm  

headhunter wrote:

They were chasing the ball, Hohaia moved into his path and Flower knocked him out of the way. No doubt there was physicality and maybe Hohaia was unhappy with the contact but it obviously wasn't intended as an attack on Hohaia, it was just part of the game whereas Hohaia chasing after Flower to smash him in the jaw clearly wasn't.

I'm not saying it wasn't daft/reckless/dangerous of Hohaia to run over and 'smash him in the jaw', but saying that Flower merely 'knocked him out of the way' is playing it down a little. You can't see what goes on clearly. He might have just pushed him, or he might have given him a clout in the face. Hohaia certainly didn't like it.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:17 pm  

You keep missing the point. Everything up to the second punch would be taken as an unfortunate part of a very physical sport. I'm not a fan of it myself (I haven't gleefully enjoyed 'the biff' since I was a kid) but I understand that sh*t happens in the heat of the moment. If it had ended there, Flower would have been on report or possibly sent off, possibly Hohaia too, and not much else said.

However, the second punch was just dreadful, and has got publicity all over the world for being a disgraceful act of thuggery on a defenceless man.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:22 pm  

Loyal Leeds Fan wrote:

I'm not saying it wasn't daft/reckless/dangerous of Hohaia to run over and 'smash him in the jaw', but saying that Flower merely 'knocked him out of the way' is playing it down a little. You can't see what goes on clearly. He might have just pushed him, or he might have given him a clout in the face. Hohaia certainly didn't like it.

Maybe he didn't, but if every player involved in a collision while chasing a kick reacted in the way Hohaia did then there would be a hell of a lot more players knocked unconscious.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:26 pm  

headhunter wrote:

They were chasing the ball, Hohaia moved into his path and Flower knocked him out of the way. No doubt there was physicality and maybe Hohaia was unhappy with the contact but it obviously wasn't intended as an attack on Hohaia, it was just part of the game whereas Hohaia chasing after Flower to smash him in the jaw clearly wasn't.

' Obviously '? Course not, Hohaia ' obviously ' just decided to just launch an attack at a 17 stone prop for nothing

' Obviously ' Flower being a ' mild mannered 17 stone prop ' who wouldnt do anything as violent as punching an unconcious player on the floor

Watch the replay, as Cronus posted earlier " it was a swinging arm above the shoulder, not a head shot "

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:37 pm  

headhunter wrote:

Maybe he didn't, but if every player involved in a collision while chasing a kick reacted in the way Hohaia did then there would be a hell of a lot more players knocked unconscious.

I don't doubt that, and sort of alluded to that point in my previous post.

I agree with BrisbaneRhino though - everything leading up to that second punch pales into insignificance really.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:38 pm  

well if hohaia is as guilty as some people are making out we can look forward to him being charged tomorrow as well then

Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:05 am  

Starbug wrote:

' Obviously '? Course not, Hohaia ' obviously ' just decided to just launch an attack at a 17 stone prop for nothing

' Obviously ' Flower being a ' mild mannered 17 stone prop ' who wouldnt do anything as violent as punching an unconcious player on the floor

Watch the replay, as Cronus posted earlier " it was a swinging arm above the shoulder, not a head shot "

At least you've learned to turn your caps lock off.

If you're going to keep quoting me, get it right. I said it was a swinging arm over the shoulder, not above the shoulder. Not an attack or punch to the head as you and the rest of the gleefully bleating masses would have it. If you don't know the difference you shouldn't be commenting.

Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:47 am  

RL is a physically aggressive, high speed, full contact sport. For it to remain that way the aggression needs to be controlled.
Flower crossed a line.
Up to the final act everything was what you get both within and outside the rules. What is outside the rules is accepted and dealt with by the disciplinary system.
Often things boil over in the normal course of a game, but when any player is injured there is usually an instant reaction to protect the welfare of the player.
This is the line that was crossed and it needs to be seen as unacceptable in the game.
I envisage a large fine and a ban of 8-12 games, preferably nearer the top end.