Re: Today's big decision : Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:56 am  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

Gone are international appearance exemptions, development allowances, liabilities and all the rest of the add ons and throw ins that have come about through the years. It's now, the cap + home grown cap cap.

The new rule will take Leeds saints and Wigan away from the rest of the pack initially. But if that encourages the rest to invest heavily in producing English talent to catch up surely that's a good thing? I think there's a misconception amongst fans that the salary cap is to make the league "fair" - it's not, it's to make the clubs do what the rfl want. And it's a great way to make everyone produce a lot more talent (without blithely just taking away the foreign talent we have in the league which is borderline illegal)

I have no problem with that, Im very comfortable with us using the cap in this way, it is one of our levers to force clubs to improve.

Realistically how often are we going to see a team promoted and not be blown away? Saints put 50 on hull kr the season they were promoted (I believe I may have my games mixed up it was a while ago!) there are always going to be scores like that. There is no way to make the bottom of the championship competitive with the top of super league - but it's a door for championship clubs to be competitive.

You wouldn’t expect a promoted team to be beating the top SL clubs, but for this league to work the top championship clubs have to be competitive with the top SL clubs. If for simplicities sake we assume a direct correlation between spending and on field quality, then what we are looking for is a league where are clubs are spending roughly the same so that the league is pretty equal. Instead, with what has been proposed, we are looking at a league where the top championship clubs will be spending a max of £900k on £600k funding, the bottom SL clubs can spend up to £1.6m and possibly a little more on £1.2m funding, and the top SL clubs spending upwards of £2m and more (pretty much!) guaranteed income from their additional matches against each other. Those are pretty big gaps.

For the first 23 rounds to be competitive we need the lower SL clubs to be spending £1.5/£1.6m so that they aren’t going to be blown away by the top SL clubs, if they are spending £1.5/£1.6m then they are going to be spending almost double the championship clubs and that isn’t going to be competitive. If they are spending around £1.1/£1.2m then the top Championship clubs could be competitive with them, but those sides will get absolutely destroyed by the top SL clubs, we are talking about a difference there of the entire championship SC.

Re: Today's big decision : Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:59 am  

Fordy wrote:

I'm not sure that Wigan's was a technicality, unless I am remembering it incorrectly.

They were at the limit then went and signed Dobson and Fielden because they were worried of the threat of relegation, but they decided it was Ok to do that and defer their wages till another season. If anyone in their right mind believes the players ACTUALLY deferred their wages as opposed to it being a neat accounting trick then they are very gullible in my eyes.
That's not getting caught out by a technicality, that's blatant cheating of the Salary cap system.


EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot Kris Radlinski coming back to play "for free"

That’s not quite what Wigan did, which was to have players contracted at a lower wage that season, with a new contract at a higher wage seasons after. There was nothing particularly wrong with that an many clubs back and forward loaded contracts. What the RFL decided however was that the renegotiation of existing contracts to do this was against the spirit of the cap.

Re: Today's big decision : Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:04 am  

The current Salary cap is fine, top clubs with great academies can spent easily 2 million.
What we need to do is market the game much much better.
We need a lot more money from the next TV deal and that is very possible with much improved competition between TV companies.
We need an actual and decent sponsor.
Add these extra funds into clubs and we'll get no more clubs going bust and the championship clubs having a chance of building

Re: Today's big decision : Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:11 am  

Starbug wrote:

As I have put on the other thread, a simple rule stating that every game played must be to the ' lower ' clubs overseas quota would make it very dangerous for any club to fill its squad with overseas players or to neglect their junior development

It would not prevent the ' top ' clubs signing marquee players, but would discourage lower clubs signing ' journeymen '

Hull KR would have to field their under 16's just to legally play Leigh.

Re: Today's big decision : Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:17 am  

Wire Yed wrote:

Hull KR would have to field their under 16's just to legally play Leigh.

Except they wouldn’t because under championship quota rules, Lovegrove, Costigan, Larroyer, Panui and Maki would all be exempt, and Burns, Keating, Poore and Weyman would likely find themselves applying for a nice new british passport.

Re: Today's big decision : Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:28 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Except they wouldn’t because under championship quota rules, Lovegrove, Costigan, Larroyer, Panui and Maki would all be exempt, and Burns, Keating, Poore and Weyman would likely find themselves applying for a nice new british passport.

Which would make them eligble for Wales,Scotland or Ireland, therefore improving the options of the home nations, but would probably put an end to the ' residency ' loophole, which would be another good thing

Problem solved, not hard is it?

Re: Today's big decision : Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:30 am  

Wire Yed wrote:

Hull KR would have to field their under 16's just to legally play Leigh.

It would certainly add some ' jeapody ' ,wouldnt it?

Re: Today's big decision : Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:36 am  

Starbug wrote:

Which would make them eligble for Wales,Scotland or Ireland, therefore improving the options of the home nations, but would probably put an end to the ' residency ' loophole, which would be another good thing

Problem solved, not hard is it?

it wouldnt make them eligible for the home nations. England yes, Wales, Scotland and Ireland no. You havent solved any problem, simply pretended it doesnt exist. Its moronic.

Re: Today's big decision : Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:36 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

I have no problem with that, Im very comfortable with us using the cap in this way, it is one of our levers to force clubs to improve.
You wouldn’t expect a promoted team to be beating the top SL clubs, but for this league to work the top championship clubs have to be competitive with the top SL clubs. If for simplicities sake we assume a direct correlation between spending and on field quality, then what we are looking for is a league where are clubs are spending roughly the same so that the league is pretty equal. Instead, with what has been proposed, we are looking at a league where the top championship clubs will be spending a max of £900k on £600k funding, the bottom SL clubs can spend up to £1.6m and possibly a little more on £1.2m funding, and the top SL clubs spending upwards of £2m and more (pretty much!) guaranteed income from their additional matches against each other. Those are pretty big gaps.

For the first 23 rounds to be competitive we need the lower SL clubs to be spending £1.5/£1.6m so that they aren’t going to be blown away by the top SL clubs, if they are spending £1.5/£1.6m then they are going to be spending almost double the championship clubs and that isn’t going to be competitive. If they are spending around £1.1/£1.2m then the top Championship clubs could be competitive with them, but those sides will get absolutely destroyed by the top SL clubs, we are talking about a difference there of the entire championship SC.

The championship clubs also have the home grown rule too, so hopefully there development will help even out the salary cap gaps. Though in reality it seems unlikely.

I think the thinking isn't necessarily that you can jump from one tier to the next quickly. Rather, it takes a couple of years consolidation in each group before moving on. Blowouts happen, but it will be up to clubs to respond to them and improve. If they don't, the top 8 will drift into a league of it's own, destroy the bottom 4 consistently before moving to the "real" competition. (This is my greatest concern with the system)

Re: Today's big decision : Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:39 am  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

The championship clubs also have the home grown rule too, so hopefully there development will help even out the salary cap gaps. Though in reality it seems unlikely.

id say doubly unlikely in that it will also mean that the top clubs, or ambitious SL clubs hoover up all the talent. Im also not sure how clubs who dont have academies are going to get many home grown players.

I think the thinking isn't necessarily that you can jump from one tier to the next quickly. Rather, it takes a couple of years consolidation in each group before moving on. Blowouts happen, but it will be up to clubs to respond to them and improve. If they don't, the top 8 will drift into a league of it's own, destroy the bottom 4 consistently before moving to the "real" competition. (This is my greatest concern with the system)

its what is almost certain to happen.