: Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:56 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Toulouse is about twice the size of Sheffield, and sheffields population is about 300k less than the tyneside conurbation,

at what stage did i say all clubs outside SL? both Gateshead and Sheffield seem to have embraced the situation much better than clubs like Leigh and Widnes, and maybe even clubs like Fax, Oldham etc,

as for players needing to take time off work, we are supposed to be trying to improve the image of the NLs as something other than a small time comp between pit villages yet there are complaints that players are having to take a day or two off their part time job to travel to france



have there been a lot of sponsors looking to pay for a european comp between two semi-pro leagues, under a much much bigger european competition we already have (super league)?
Could Toulouse put together that squad, invest in the youth as they have, go pro as they have and prepare for SL like they are by adding a couple a games on to the end of the year?

the french elite and the NLs are and will be a feeder league to SL, thats how it is, the best players from each of these two leagues will both move to the SL clubs, the reason Toulouse is in the NLs is to prepare for SL, its to get more money from sponsors, from TV, which they can then invest in to preparing themselves

So 2 clubs that applied for a franchise complained the day after the decision and have since been quietly getting ready for next season

4 Clubs that did not apply for a franchise did not complain about the decision and have ' embraced ' what since ?

A couple of days ago you stated that maybe a sponsor might have already agreed with the RFL to put more investment into a european second tier competition but in the post above you ask the question of Bowes as if it is a ludicrous idea

Make your mind up

You then post all the reasons for Toulouse to enter NL1 and the benifits they will get , you also point out that this inclusion will most likely [ if things go to plan ] only be for the next 3 seasons but you dont post one single benifit to the NL 1 clubs let alone the NL 2 clubs and yet this will take a considerable amount of money [ earned by the SL clubs and the sport at international level ] without complaint

And then you wonder why most NL fans when presented with the costs are basically unhappy with it

You really are losing the plot

: Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:57 am  

Starbug wrote:

These comments made the day after the decision [ 3 months ago ] as you have highlighted were all aimed at the RFL so how are they bad mouthing another club

because they were questioning the right of Celtic to be there, it poured scorn on the idea that it was at all possible for Celtic to be a better run club than any of these other clubs,

Leigh chief executive Allan Rowley said: “May we take this opportunity to wish Salford and Celtic all the best but we also have to say we are thoroughly disgusted with the Celtic decision.

if you want to pretend this isnt bad mouthing celtic carry on, but it would make you look silly

Was Mr Wilkinson at Salford bad mouthing the RFL or the Celtic Crusaders when he complained about the ausstralian club that beat them in the NL 1 semi ?

yes he was, and it made him look stupid, but Salford arent an NL1 side anymore, they arent relevent to what i said or Toulouse

Have you heard any more complaints from the Leigh club either about the franchise decision or the inclusion of Toulouse , if so please provide some proof of it

You seem to be getting confused between a supporter of the club and the club itself

not at all, but in a few cases the attitude of some of the supporters, is led by the poor attitude of these clubs

for example your attitude seems to be very similar to those at Leighs. Here you are on a Toulouse message board questioning Toulouse' right to be here, which, like it or not is a criticism of Toulouse, which is almost identical to the attitude shown by Leigh towards celtic

I do see that you now concede that there may not be any tangible benifits to the existing NL clubs , which is a change from what you have been posting for quite some time

So you have changed ' tack ' on this

not at all, I think the addition of Toulouse will see benefits for the league of NL1, and IMO the individual clubs as well, however this is superfluous to the question of whether or not they should be in NL1

NL clubs fans understand completely that we are not the be all and end all of RL but why should that mean we dont want what is best for our clubs

it doesnt, but it means you need to understand not everything is done for these minority of clubs who bring relatively little to the table

You state that we will become nothing more than feeder clubs to SL along with the French elite , that may well be true but then in the past you have criticised NL clubs for lacking ambition , so make your mind up we either should have ambition to better ourselves and as you have stated many times we are a business in a competitive industry [ both with our fellow clubs and with SL clubs and other sports ] and therefore we are fighting for the best deal we can get or should we all meakly get shafted by all and sundry for the good of the game

no, i said you were already a feeder comp to the SL, and you always will be, the vast majority of the players SL want will go there, and the players not good enough for SL will filter down there, thats how a 2nd tier works,

and its completely idiotic to pretend your in competition with SL, if SL took that attitude we would see nothing but moaning about hard done to your poor little clubs were by you and your ilk. You compete with the other clubs for players, and because most of the teams in the RL pyramid are a couple of miles from each other fans as well, but the leagues arent in competition, if they were the NLs would be crushed within a year, you wouldnt be meakly shafted, you just wouldnt exist

You seem to be of the opinion that we should get nothing from ' central ' funds unless we are happy to oblige the RFL , well that is your opinion and you are entitled to it

and it is 100% correct, if your trying to 'fight for the best deal you can get' why would you expect everyone else to be 'meakly shafted' surely the SL clubs should be out for everything they can get, im sure if they put their minds to it they could get the RFL to redirect the NL funds to youth rugby or towards clubs they want in SL? Maybe the SL clubs would want Sky to screen their academy games again instead of the NLs, after all why would Superleague want to give exposure to the National Leagues if they are in competition with it?

the answer is, they understand the leagues arent in competition, and if all parts of the game work together they all will be stronger, and thats what they are doing, giving money the NL clubs need to the NL clubs, and asking they help prepare a future SL club in return (which may also raise the profile of the NLs etc)

We are the least important part of the sport in your opinion and would be the least missed if we were to leave the control of the RFL

That might one day happen and in my opinion it would not put us in any worse a position than we will be in the next few years

In the mean time if I think the RFL are making a mistake I will say so

yeah, im sure the NLs would be in exactly the same position if they lost their TV deal, Sport England/uk sport funding, RFL central funding, RFL accreditation etc,

: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:07 am  

Starbug wrote:

So 2 clubs that applied for a franchise complained the day after the decision and have since been quietly getting ready for next season

4 Clubs that did not apply for a franchise did not complain about the decision and have ' embraced ' what since ?

well 2 clubs complained about the decision, sending their fans loopy and on a crusade to put down anything to do with RL outside their parish,

4 clubs said nothing other than they would look to build towards the next franchise process, their fans kept a bit quiter, and dont seem to have the same downer on everything RL,

2 clubs dont seem to have embraced the situation, and have relied on bitching and moaning, 4 clubs seem to have embraced the situation and are moving towards a happy ending

and didnt Fax apply for a licence, they certainly told sky sports they did,

A couple of days ago you stated that maybe a sponsor might have already agreed with the RFL to put more investment into a european second tier competition but in the post above you ask the question of Bowes as if it is a ludicrous idea

Make your mind up

a sponsor/s may have said they will contribute money to Toulouse or the RFL to help pay for their involvement in NL1, Toulouse have certainly upped their budget by about £500k next year due to increase in sponsorship and a TV deal they previously didnt have with Canal +,

there has been nothing anywhere to say anybody would be interested in sponsoring or screening a return to a competition we had previously that wasnt particularly successful

You then post all the reasons for Toulouse to enter NL1 and the benifits they will get , you also point out that this inclusion will most likely [ if things go to plan ] only be for the next 3 seasons but you dont post one single benifit to the NL 1 clubs let alone the NL 2 clubs and yet this will take a considerable amount of money [ earned by the SL clubs and the sport at international level ] without complaint

ah so what your really moaning about is the RFL, despicably, spending money earned by SL and the international game, on something which you suspect will only benefit SL and the International game,

NL clubs dont have to have their snouts in every trough you know!

And then you wonder why most NL fans when presented with the costs are basically unhappy with it

costs paid for by the RFL

[tb]

: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:06 am  

Are you two confused about the subject of this thread?

: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:19 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Could Toulouse put together that squad, invest in the youth as they have, go pro as they have and prepare for SL like they are by adding a couple a games on to the end of the year?

If they can't they'll be no good for SL as Catalans managed easily from the Elite without playing in NL1. If NL1 is so awful like you insist why do Toulouse need to play in it?

: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:57 pm  

tb wrote:

Are you two confused about the subject of this thread?

Not confused at all , there was a bit of drift and sensible discussion then Smokey turned up and because nobody is arguing with him about geography,physics or the credit crunch he starts a ' discussion ' in which he insults all of the hard working clubs that make up our 2 nd and 3 rd tier competitions

So no problem I will start a new thread on here so as not to upset you

In fact you even joined in for a while , until that pedantic point about travel agents

: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:59 pm  

By the way I think Toulouse will finish mid table , I hope they finish bottom

: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:04 pm  

bowes wrote:

If they can't they'll be no good for SL as Catalans managed easily from the Elite without playing in NL1. If NL1 is so awful like you insist why do Toulouse need to play in it?

where have i said the NLs are Awful?

and Les Catalan put their team together with guaranteed admission to SL, they also had no competition and took 2 years of SL rugby to start firing properly

: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:07 pm  

Starbug wrote:

Not confused at all , there was a bit of drift and sensible discussion then Smokey turned up and because nobody is arguing with him about geography,physics or the credit crunch he starts a ' discussion ' in which he insults all of the hard working clubs that make up our 2 nd and 3 rd tier competitions

So no problem I will start a new thread on here so as not to upset you

i think you will find it was you and Bowes who decided to start the thread drift and question Toulouse' right to be where they are, so you could sit here and have a arent-we-hard-done-to-poor-old-us-damn-forriners-getting-money-that-should-go-to-us-hard-working-northern-working-class-clubs-athon

: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:50 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

i didnt say they were stopping them, i said they were trying

a prime example would the epic leigh franchise dummy spit

getting stuck right up your own asshole yet again smokey????????