Re: Chase - how long ban? : Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:58 am  

"The committee have viewed the incident carefully and are satisfied that contact from the player was with the shoulder, which the player has admitted already and that made contact with his opponent’s head."

I am pleased that the RFL haven't been fooled into thinking Chase went in with the elbow or forearm as I don't believe that was ever his intention.

As I've said before I believe it is only natural that the arm will raise up and I think there are various examples on the popular video sharing website of "big hits" in the NRL where you will see it is the case. Granted most of them are executed much better than this case.

Best of luck to Ropati in his recovery.

[Kosh]

Re: Chase - how long ban? : Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:18 am  

Wellsy13 wrote:

As for the cynics who think that Chase's international status has anything to do with his lenient punishment, anyone care to check who played hooker for GB in 2004...

Remind me who he injured...

[Kosh]

Re: Chase - how long ban? : Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:21 am  

Highlander wrote: The report is up.http://www.therfl.co.uk/disciplinary/item?3553 Millward & Chase actually tried to convince them it was only "careless" rather than "reckless". The committee have viewed the incident carefully and are satisfied that contact from the player was with the shoulder, which the player has admitted already and that made contact with his opponent’s head. The committee give the player credit for pleading guilty however they do not believe in this instance that the tackle was careless but indeed reckless. The opponent has sustained a serious injury which has been noted from his club and the committee view this incident very seriously and have indeed thought about going outside the Match Review Panel’s recommended guidelines for a Grade C offence. The player does not have a great record and the committee feel that a 3 match suspension and a £300 fine is appropriate. They considered going outside guidelines.... Whoop de doo Reading the report I can only assume that the DVD footage available to the panel was significantly less detailed and conclusive than the Sky footage. Had they seen the latter then there could have been little doubt regarding the use of the elbow. Chase is a lucky boy. Mind you, his fellow players now know for sure what a cowardly piece of work he is and I would guess he might be in for some 'special attention' upon his return.

Highlander wrote: The report is up.http://www.therfl.co.uk/disciplinary/item?3553 Millward & Chase actually tried to convince them it was only "careless" rather than "reckless". The committee have viewed the incident carefully and are satisfied that contact from the player was with the shoulder, which the player has admitted already and that made contact with his opponent’s head. The committee give the player credit for pleading guilty however they do not believe in this instance that the tackle was careless but indeed reckless. The opponent has sustained a serious injury which has been noted from his club and the committee view this incident very seriously and have indeed thought about going outside the Match Review Panel’s recommended guidelines for a Grade C offence. The player does not have a great record and the committee feel that a 3 match suspension and a £300 fine is appropriate. They considered going outside guidelines.... Whoop de doo Reading the report I can only assume that the DVD footage available to the panel was significantly less detailed and conclusive than the Sky footage. Had they seen the latter then there could have been little doubt regarding the use of the elbow. Chase is a lucky boy. Mind you, his fellow players now know for sure what a cowardly piece of work he is and I would guess he might be in for some 'special attention' upon his return.

Re: Chase - how long ban? : Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:26 am  

Andy Gilder wrote:

IMO the RFL have acted a bit like the CPS in criminal cases here. They've gone for the highest available grading that they think they can prove conclusively from the evidence they've got.

They could have tried to prove it was deliberate, which is difficult without being inside the head of the player at the time. They could have tried to prove it was with the elbow rather than the forearm, but did they have sufficient video evidence to do that (aren't all offences judged by the DVDs provided by the clubs, in order to ensure that TV games don't get treated unfairly?).

Rather than going with a prosecution for murder, they've taken the manslaughter route because it's easier to prove.

You do wonder why Newton's hit on Long got him 7 games though and this was only deemed worthy of 3.

This is the bit I don’t get.

As you righty say, it’s impossible to determine whether the action is deliberate or not.

So, has anybody ever been judged to have deliberately attempted to harm an opponent, if so, how did they know – were they wired to a lie detector?

My point is, is there any point in having an Intentional tariff, when they cannot prove it?

Re: Chase - how long ban? : Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:31 am  

Kosh wrote:

Reading the report I can only assume that the DVD footage available to the panel was significantly less detailed and conclusive than the Sky footage. Had they seen the latter then there could have been little doubt regarding the use of the elbow.

Chase is a lucky boy. Mind you, his fellow players now know for sure what a cowardly piece of work he is and I would guess he might be in for some 'special attention' upon his return.

I'm now wondering if they actually viewed the incident in question, after reading this bit:

"your conduct contributed to a prolonged melee occurring"

What "prolonged melee" would that be then?

Re: Chase - how long ban? : Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:33 am  

The Devil's Advocate wrote:

This is the bit I don’t get.

As you righty say, it’s impossible to determine whether the action is deliberate or not.

So, has anybody ever been judged to have deliberately attempted to harm an opponent, if so, how did they know – were they wired to a lie detector?

My point is, is there any point in having an Intentional tariff, when they cannot prove it?

Surely intentional cases would be punching, kicking, biting, etc

Re: Chase - how long ban? : Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:36 am  

cod'ead wrote:

I'm now wondering if they actually viewed the incident in question, after reading this bit:

"your conduct contributed to a prolonged melee occurring"

What "prolonged melee" would that be then?

I think they men Francis Melee

Re: Chase - how long ban? : Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:40 am  

The Devil's Advocate wrote:

This is the bit I don’t get.

As you righty say, it’s impossible to determine whether the action is deliberate or not.

..

Not at all. Judicial bodies do exactly this all day long. The disciplinary is just one more form of judicial body and all they do (and all they can do) is arrive at a decision based on the relevant standard of proof

It would be nonsensical if it was anything else. On the basis of the 'impossible' argument, no person, ever, anywhere, could ever be convicted of doing anything deliberately, if they came up with an excuse, since only they can actually know what was in their head. That would be absurd.

Re: Chase - how long ban? : Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:53 am  

Legionited wrote:

Surely intentional cases would be punching, kicking, biting, etc

Yep I appreciate those, however, I’m referring to the following

A-C Strikes with hand, arm or shoulder – reckless
C-D Strikes with hand, arm or shoulder – intentional
C-E Strikes with elbow – tackling – reckless
D-F Strikes with elbow – tackling – intentional


How does the panel decide whether intentional or not, Superleague player or Championship, International or not, toss a coin?

Re: Chase - how long ban? : Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:58 am  

cod'ead wrote:

I'm now wondering if they actually viewed the incident in question, after reading this bit:

"your conduct contributed to a prolonged melee occurring"

What "prolonged melee" would that be then?

I think it did start to get a bit tasty in the few minutes after that - didnt Emmett swing closed fist at a Fev forward in the tackle etc?