Re: Toulouse : Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:24 am  

Fully wrote:

But what will it do for the benefit of the other Super League clubs?

Zip.

If French TV want to invest in something how about Toulouse and Catalan become the pioneers of a fully full-time professional French competition that French TV and sponsors can buy into.

That would truly create the next generation and improve the competition from France. And is a better proposal than inserting them into a predominantly North England competition where they would offer no notable benefit financially to a club that would bring much more support income and less in terms of costs for the return fixture.

Presumably the French TV money would go into the overall Super League pot to be shared amongst all the clubs. If the game has the opportunity to bring in a significant TV revenue from France, it will be worth more to the clubs than having a few hundred Fax fans visiting once a season.

Re: Toulouse : Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:32 am  

headhunter wrote:

I love that whenever a RL match in an expansion area gets a good attendance, it's because they 'gave away tickets'. You people are pitiful.

Good idea. Then we can keep Super League for real RL towns like Keighley and Featherstone.

Do you mean like Premier League football with outposts such as Blackpool, Norwich, Stoke in recent times who have all gone on to become successful?

The only way rugby league is ever going to grow as a sport is not through some European project where fans can't afford to follow their team. It's a strong domestic network of leagues.

I'm not a person that hates expansion or is against it - I was supportive of Crusaders and was proven wrong regarding Catalan.

But if you insert a second Super League side from France you're asking fans to pay up for long journeys to France twice, London and Magic Weekend. Equally, club costs are going to rise too from having to pay for hotels and flights and they'd also lose matchday income from travelling support when at home. On top of this, they'd lose ticket revenue raised through the club for the games in France. I know that Cas didn't get any tickets from Catalan this year!

It would be so much better if French TV put £X million into creating a fully professional rugby league which will strengthen the game and could also attract some top Australian players.

Re: Toulouse : Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:37 am  

RED LEAGUE wrote:

And you could say all those things about RL in London and look how that's turned out?

You definitely cannot say all those things about rugby league in (soccer mad) London.

The only city in Britain which is remotely analogous to (rugby mad) Toulouse, is not London but Cardiff. However Cardiff does not have the economic power of Toulouse, nor does it have a powerful local rugby union club and mayor that are supportive of the development of a professional rugby league club in the city.

Re: Toulouse : Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:37 am  

EHW wrote:

Presumably the French TV money would go into the overall Super League pot to be shared amongst all the clubs. If the game has the opportunity to bring in a significant TV revenue from France, it will be worth more to the clubs than having a few hundred Fax fans visiting once a season.

I'd doubt it.

AFAIK French TV don't show every Super League game - just the Catalan games thus far so I'd guess the money that would go to clubs is going to be small and certainly nothing significant that would project Super League into the global powerhouse predicted.

Make a fully professional French league with a TV deal and then have an end-of-season tournament involving both the English and French divisions.

Re: Toulouse : Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:47 am  

Fully wrote:

Make a fully professional French league with a TV deal and then have an end-of-season tournament involving both the English and French divisions.

That option has been thought of by BeIN Sport, and has subsequently been dropped. There is simply not the player base nor the organisation nor the funds to create a fully professional French rugby league competition. A TV deal does not pay for all expenses of each club, not in the NRL, not in Super League, and similarly not in France.

Re: Toulouse : Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:51 am  

From what I've read a fully pro French league is nowhere near doable, even with a TV deal.

Get Toulouse in SL for me.

Re: Toulouse : Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:02 am  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

That option has been thought of by BeIN Sport, and has subsequently been dropped. There is simply not the player base nor the organisation nor the funds to create a fully professional French rugby league competition. A TV deal does not pay for all expenses of each club, not in the NRL, not in Super League, and similarly not in France.

What about the existing player base already playing for French teams? Can they not make the step up to a fully professional environment?

A TV deal doesn't pay for it all you're right (although I'm not sure how much NRL clubs receive relative to their cap), however, that's the whole point of commercial and ticket sales too. You could even have your own Magic Weekend in Paris or similar, which may attract British speccies too. And you make the salary cap at an affordable level so the equivalent of £1m in the UK.

Surely if you're also pushing for a 3rd and 4th team in Super League there must be something there to justify their inclusion, otherwise your above points just don't stack up and will not work for SL either.

People have whinged about England not having a player base on here but the inclusion of another French team further risks penalising that and restricting that. Similarly, some people are moaning about the French team not having enough strength in depth.

The only way to strengthen both is having two separate entities. Otherwise, you're going to end up dragging France up to a slightly better level and risk forcing England down to a slightly lower level with the Aussies even further ahead of the rest of us.

Sorry: but there's nothing IMO to justify a second French team in Super League from a commercial, spectator or wider game benefit point of view.

Re: Toulouse : Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:03 am  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

You definitely cannot say all those things about rugby league in (soccer mad) London.

The only city in Britain which is remotely analogous to (rugby mad) Toulouse, is not London but Cardiff. However Cardiff does not have the economic power of Toulouse, nor does it have a powerful local rugby union club and mayor that are supportive of the development of a professional rugby league club in the city.

Ay? I may be wrong but don't Toulouse have a french ligue 1 football team? Who average 18000 fans a game. Rugby union is KING in Toulouse and I'm sure the RL team would struggle to regularly attract the 20000+ crowds the RU team get?

You say London is soccer mad? Yes I would say so but its also has a huge rugby union presence, you have Harlequins, wasps, two of the dominant RU clubs and the main factor is england RU is based in london. Toulouse RL will have exactly the Sam problem that the broncos have, having the city dominated by two other major (bigger sports) is the room for another professional sports team in the city?

Re: Toulouse : Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:46 am  

Fully wrote:

Do you mean like Premier League football with outposts such as Blackpool, Norwich, Stoke in recent times who have all gone on to become successful?

The only way rugby league is ever going to grow as a sport is not through some European project where fans can't afford to follow their team. It's a strong domestic network of leagues.

I'm not a person that hates expansion or is against it - I was supportive of Crusaders and was proven wrong regarding Catalan.

But if you insert a second Super League side from France you're asking fans to pay up for long journeys to France twice, London and Magic Weekend. Equally, club costs are going to rise too from having to pay for hotels and flights and they'd also lose matchday income from travelling support when at home. On top of this, they'd lose ticket revenue raised through the club for the games in France. I know that Cas didn't get any tickets from Catalan this year!

It would be so much better if French TV put £X million into creating a fully professional rugby league which will strengthen the game and could also attract some top Australian players.

Most fans won't even travel to the end of the m62 so what makes you think they are being asked to travel to France twice?

Great crowd and from what I hear a great stadium and town to visit. If they can show the financial security get them in I say.

Re: Toulouse : Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:49 am  

RED LEAGUE wrote:

Ay? I may be wrong but don't Toulouse have a french ligue 1 football team? Who average 18000 fans a game. Rugby union is KING in Toulouse and I'm sure the RL team would struggle to regularly attract the 20000+ crowds the RU team get?

You say London is soccer mad? Yes I would say so but its also has a huge rugby union presence, you have Harlequins, wasps, two of the dominant RU clubs and the main factor is england RU is based in london. Toulouse RL will have exactly the Sam problem that the broncos have, having the city dominated by two other major (bigger sports) is the room for another professional sports team in the city?

It's an entirely different city that appears to support the idea of rugby league. The football team gets an average of around 18,000, the union team's ground capacity is only at 19,000. Thats a far cry from London with:
Arsenal av 60,000
Charlton Ath - 17,500
Chelsea - 41,500
Crystal Palace - 15,000
Fulham - 25,000
Millwall - 11,500
QPR - 17,500
Spurs - 36,000
West Ham - 34,500

London is most definitely a football city and is too big a place, in my opinion, for a club to appeal to the entire city. Toulouse isn't like that