Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Wed May 09, 2018 1:42 am  

Budgiezilla wrote:

Bless....I like the trees in the stadium.....

So did the Wolfpack. That much that they counted them as part of the attendance

ThePrinter wrote:

Just providing more footage of the crowd there....or are you the only person allowed to post an image of a Toronto crowd on here?

Not at all......it's just videos like that were few and far between last year. Instead we relied on TV footage to disprove the lies they spouted.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Wed May 09, 2018 5:11 am  

Call Me God wrote:

So did the Wolfpack. That much that they counted them as part of the attendance
Not at all......it's just videos like that were few and far between last year. Instead we relied on TV footage to disprove the lies they spouted.

They're videos just shot by fans in attendances on social media, I'm sure you could've found the exact same IF you wanted to last year. For all your criticism of their attendances last year, the number of just 3k for this game actually looks pretty fair given those clips so you just sound bitter and agenda driven trying to paint it as a lie with a selective single photograph.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Wed May 09, 2018 5:46 am  

ThePrinter wrote:

Just providing more footage of the crowd there....or are you the only person allowed to post an image of a Toronto crowd on here?

It's like he has an agenda or something ?

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Wed May 09, 2018 8:11 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

It's like he has an agenda or something ?

Yes, he is just a bitter, twisted man. London Broncos/Harlequins fans can testify to this from his previous incarnation as Gutterfax.

He wants all expansion to fail. If he gets his way the game will continue to decline in the northern hemisphere.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Wed May 09, 2018 10:45 am  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

Yes, he is just a bitter, twisted man. London Broncos/Harlequins fans can testify to this from his previous incarnation as Gutterfax.

He wants all expansion to fail. If he gets his way the game will continue to decline in the northern hemisphere.

I suppose its down to what context the word "expansion' is being used in. As Perez stated in order to get the TV broadcasters/sponsors on board would take 5/6 teams to join the party. There would be no NA league for at least 10 years, all would remain transatlantic as that aspect appeals to TV broadcasters/sponsors.

Most Cities in North America don't have more than one team in the same sport. Placement of those 5/6 clubs is paramount. They can't place 3 clubs in a relative vicinity of each other, for one the game just isn't popular enough,but the main reason being the paying customer is not accustom to that scenario.

So you are basically left with 5/6 transatlantic clubs,and the logistical nightmare that will go with that.

Just my opinion of course,but I really don't see what other options they have short term. Long term 10 + years with investment if they get these clubs going is a possibility. Just not sure the plan is going to form at present.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Wed May 09, 2018 2:36 pm  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

Most English and French fans have not been to Toronto. Give them a chance to enjoy that city, especially in the spring and summer.

Why should your fortunate experience of having been to Toronto be even relevant to causing the RFL to limit the life experience opportunities available to 99% of northern hemisphere rugby league fans?

I typed 4 words and you still twist it.

You really are something else

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Wed May 09, 2018 2:48 pm  

A couple do. LA has 2 MLB, Football& basketball teams. New York has 2 of every sport. And pretty much every American city has a team in at least 3 of the major sports over there (American football,Baseball,Basketball,Ice Hockey & Soccer). With a number having a team in ALL the sports.
So as you say the placement of any RL team is paramount. Because putting an alien sport in a place where there's already a full market can only lead to one thing long term, failure. Novelty might help at first, but it's not going to sustain a team.

And in my opinion the only way you get American Broadcasters/Media involved big time is if it's an American league (which as you say is along time off). They're are always going to be more interested in Philly v Denver , than Philly v Wigan. That's just the nature of Americans.

And then the issue becomes, if teams are in our league, and an American league takes off. What do they do? And if they leave what becomes of our league?

And to me this was always the big problem (as with a lot of things in RL). We went short term, without looking at the long term. Instead of looking at it, we want to be here in 10 years, so we do this then this then this to get there. We look at it as right if we do this, then that COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN, and oh we've gone wrong and are back on our knee's. So let's change it all again and hope it works better this time.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Wed May 09, 2018 3:45 pm  

luke ShipleyRed wrote:

A couple do. LA has 2 MLB, Football& basketball teams. New York has 2 of every sport. And pretty much every American city has a team in at least 3 of the major sports over there (American football,Baseball,Basketball,Ice Hockey & Soccer). With a number having a team in ALL the sports.
So as you say the placement of any RL team is paramount. Because putting an alien sport in a place where there's already a full market can only lead to one thing long term, failure. Novelty might help at first, but it's not going to sustain a team.

And in my opinion the only way you get American Broadcasters/Media involved big time is if it's an American league (which as you say is along time off). They're are always going to be more interested in Philly v Denver , than Philly v Wigan. That's just the nature of Americans.

And then the issue becomes, if teams are in our league, and an American league takes off. What do they do? And if they leave what becomes of our league?

And to me this was always the big problem (as with a lot of things in RL). We went short term, without looking at the long term. Instead of looking at it, we want to be here in 10 years, so we do this then this then this to get there. We look at it as right if we do this, then that COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN, and oh we've gone wrong and are back on our knee's. So let's change it all again and hope it works better this time.

Exactly the concern I have been voicing. With every respect to our top clubs, I wonder how many American fans have even heard of Wigan, St Helens, Hull, etc?

We could get caught in two ways if we have 4/5 North American teams in 'our' league:-

If that league becomes successful, our lower tiers gradually wither away. (4/5 NA teams each take say 20 of our players)
If the league is unsuccessful, what becomes of the likes of Wigan, Saints etc, when they are not wanted by the NA teams? Would there be anything left for them to come back to?

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Wed May 09, 2018 9:44 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote: It's like he has an agenda or something ? Nope. I am just a realist who doesn't subscribe to the propaganda that Toronto are the answer to all the games woes. In year 1, Toronto did everything they said they would. The paid for away travel for visiting sides, put them up etc.....they did the rounds of PR, Social Media, got themselves a local TV deal, didn't take cash from central funding and not surprisingly walked their division with a team that cost more than the other 11 in their division combined. Well done Wolfpack. Year 2 is where I see the issues creeping to a head. The work on Lamport has been known about for 3 years and was scheduled as early as Feb 2017.......so they knew it was coming. The fact that they didn't find any other ground for games this year until May is suspicious, to say the least. Then there was the triple departure at the start of the season and the disappearance of Perez? Then the fixture v the French, which would have actually cost them money as their sponsor doesn't fly from Toulouse, is mysteriously bunged onto Magic Weekend.......it's almost like they're being given every assistance available......don't get me wrong, Argyle and his cash are welcome, but SL and the SL graveyard are littered with well meaning multi-millionaires who haven't a clue but believe their wealth entitles them to whatever they want. Those fawning over Toronto need to realise that Argyle will bin the SL as soon as they get their foothold in the USA.....as other have stated the USA is an insular as a country can be, so Wigan v NYC isn't what they'll Watch.....but LA v Boston is...so if the Gym teacher gets NYC into the SL inside 3 years and we have Boston and Jacksonville joining them, whilst these new teams vacuum up our talent, we make room by replacing the Salfords, Widnes's Huddersfield's......only for these new teams to take their ball and leave us high and dry. RL has a rich history of well meaning folk cutting corners and trying to do the right thing quickly and on the cheap.......and Toronto is yet another example of this. As for the topic of crowds. Well done them for getting 3k to the playing field at the weekend......great crowd considering they were 25 clicks from home and playing a bottom club.....but when they arrive in SL next year with no TV deal and no new sponsors, but packed with a suspiciously "cap" tastic and EU Passport holding ANZAC squad, I suspect we'll here more SL chairmen requesting Home and Away scheduling for them, whinging about Premier TV cameras showing games..... As for Chorley Johns comments about me being anti-expansion......nothing could be farther from the truth. It's just I've seen what happens when you build from the top down.......http://www.footballsite.co.uk/Statistics/Articles/FulhamvWigan.htm

wrencat1873 wrote: It's like he has an agenda or something ? Nope. I am just a realist who doesn't subscribe to the propaganda that Toronto are the answer to all the games woes. In year 1, Toronto did everything they said they would. The paid for away travel for visiting sides, put them up etc.....they did the rounds of PR, Social Media, got themselves a local TV deal, didn't take cash from central funding and not surprisingly walked their division with a team that cost more than the other 11 in their division combined. Well done Wolfpack. Year 2 is where I see the issues creeping to a head. The work on Lamport has been known about for 3 years and was scheduled as early as Feb 2017.......so they knew it was coming. The fact that they didn't find any other ground for games this year until May is suspicious, to say the least. Then there was the triple departure at the start of the season and the disappearance of Perez? Then the fixture v the French, which would have actually cost them money as their sponsor doesn't fly from Toulouse, is mysteriously bunged onto Magic Weekend.......it's almost like they're being given every assistance available......don't get me wrong, Argyle and his cash are welcome, but SL and the SL graveyard are littered with well meaning multi-millionaires who haven't a clue but believe their wealth entitles them to whatever they want. Those fawning over Toronto need to realise that Argyle will bin the SL as soon as they get their foothold in the USA.....as other have stated the USA is an insular as a country can be, so Wigan v NYC isn't what they'll Watch.....but LA v Boston is...so if the Gym teacher gets NYC into the SL inside 3 years and we have Boston and Jacksonville joining them, whilst these new teams vacuum up our talent, we make room by replacing the Salfords, Widnes's Huddersfield's......only for these new teams to take their ball and leave us high and dry. RL has a rich history of well meaning folk cutting corners and trying to do the right thing quickly and on the cheap.......and Toronto is yet another example of this. As for the topic of crowds. Well done them for getting 3k to the playing field at the weekend......great crowd considering they were 25 clicks from home and playing a bottom club.....but when they arrive in SL next year with no TV deal and no new sponsors, but packed with a suspiciously "cap" tastic and EU Passport holding ANZAC squad, I suspect we'll here more SL chairmen requesting Home and Away scheduling for them, whinging about Premier TV cameras showing games..... As for Chorley Johns comments about me being anti-expansion......nothing could be farther from the truth. It's just I've seen what happens when you build from the top down.......http://www.footballsite.co.uk/Statistics/Articles/FulhamvWigan.htm

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Wed May 09, 2018 9:50 pm  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

If he gets his way the game will continue to decline in the northern hemisphere.

Quick.....someone call 007.........Chorley John reckons he's found an evil criminal mastermind..