Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Tue May 08, 2018 7:51 pm  

RoyBoy29 wrote:

Been there, done that

Most English and French fans have not been to Toronto. Give them a chance to enjoy that city, especially in the spring and summer.

Why should your fortunate experience of having been to Toronto be even relevant to causing the RFL to limit the life experience opportunities available to 99% of northern hemisphere rugby league fans?

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Tue May 08, 2018 8:23 pm  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

Most English and French fans have not been to Toronto. Give them a chance to enjoy that city, especially in the spring and summer.

Why should your fortunate experience of having been to Toronto be even relevant to causing the RFL to limit the life experience opportunities available to 99% of northern hemisphere rugby league fans?

A very valid point, about opportunities for RL fans to enjoy the experience of a 'jolly' in Toronto. Indeed, I have no doubt that most English and French fans have not been to Beijing and, given the current make up of the TW team, we may as well have started a club there!

However, on your final point, I wonder how many of the 99% of northern hemisphere RL fans, would be able to afford the expense of a 'jolly' to Toronto?

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Tue May 08, 2018 8:31 pm  

wiganermike wrote:

None of that is a flaw with the system unless by system you mean having P&R (which if we didn't have then we wouldn't have promoted sides to struggle to stay up). As I posted before it was always the case that a promoted side would be recruiting after all the top tier clubs had sewn up theirs as they knew they were in the top tier while until sealing it at season's end the promoted club(s) didn't. When we had 1 relegation spot the aim was second bottom, when we had two relegated it was 3rd from bottom, with three it was 4th bottom. The aim was always to do just enough to ensure staying up (the odd exception saw a team compete much better and finish a bit higher). The only difference now is that the equivalent to finishing 11th out of 12 in the top tier is to finish 3rd in the qualifiers (or failing that to win the MPG).

Getting thrashed and regularly beaten will hit confidence but using a club in the bottom four as an example it won't be a mauling at the hands of St Helens that will decide if Huddersfield stay up. It will be the games in the qualifiers against Championship teams and 3 other teams that have getting beaten all year too. At least with the qualifiers it will be games against teams of similar ability that ultimately decide the fate of the contenders rather than getting a shellacking by St Helens et al. I'm guessing that you don't like the split season format and want it changed, however the struggle for any promoted club to avoid going back down has nothing to do with the current system for deciding relegation, changing it wouldn't change that.

I didn't think SL was boring last season when Cas were doing their stuff (bear in mind I write as a Fev fan so I'm hardly likely to be biased towards Cas.) Now Saints seem to have taken up the baton. But from what I've seen most sides are still playing five drives and a kick. I watched the Aviva highlights on C5 last night. They appear to be playing more football than we are at the moment. We used to call Union kick and clap, our game seems to be degenerating into that at the moment. You see more football in the Championship.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Tue May 08, 2018 9:03 pm  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

Most English and French fans have not been to Toronto. Give them a chance to enjoy that city, especially in the spring and summer.

Why should your fortunate experience of having been to Toronto be even relevant to causing the RFL to limit the life experience opportunities available to 99% of northern hemisphere rugby league fans?

This is a Rugby League forum, not a travel expo.....you are Judith Chalmers and I claim my £5!

Toronto were hailed as the saviour of the sport who would open up opportunities to generate more revenue......the only opportunity to generate new revenue so far has been to employ a few Leigh rejects and some pretty average ANZACS.

They will take their place in SL next year and as a result (unless they replace Catalans), the average crowds will be down in 2019, the TV figures will be down with one less game shown (if they replace Catalans) and Betfred will be scratching their heads as to why they are paying to sponsor a 12 team league with 2 clubs of no interest to them (if they don't replace Catalans).......meanwhile, in Toronto, their is quite literally no interest...see an action pic taken from the match at the weekend...
...3k there apparently....... ...did they bring the hot-dog canon?

......but I have noticed that their press releases are getting more "us and them" in their stance, claiming that the team have been away from home for 4 long months, when in reality, most have been at home with their mums

Next year in SL, Toronto will need to average 10,000 fans paying £20 sterling as the average price to break even. £4,000,000 is the figure needed to sustain a SL club and that's a bottom 4 SL club at that.....if Argyle wants to challenge for honours, then he'll need deep pockets and be prepared to throw another £4,000,000 at them to compete with the big 3 or 4 in SL.....and he's still got to stick to the cap. Given London couldn't get star players to travel 200 miles, his ability to get Sam Burgess to move to Toronto for less money will be key.......and that ain't happening.

To clarify, the average price of a ticket to Toronto's next home game is CA$25...OR £14.......Nobody here has denied that their claimed attendances last year included every Free ticket they had given away, so the reality is that Argyle is looking at a similar or worse ticketing income next year to London Broncos in SL but with TWICE the expense......if not more......and there's no sign of the TV deal or any Major Sponsors other than the contra airline deal. Then there's the subject of when they start paying regular season games at Home next year.....whomever is at the wrong end of SL will squeal a lot more about unfair advantages of blocks of games.....after all, relegation is a massive drop in income and no club can truly afford to lose 1 million in revenue......so, do Toronto give up home advantage for maybe their first 2 or 3 games....Mid March sees temps of 7 degrees in Toronto.....About the same as Liverpool in Feb.......and then I'd make them play Home and Away....let's see how many of the imaginary 7,000 will pay ca$37 to sit in an uncovered stand for the visit of Salford.......I can get tickets to the Blue Jays for ca$10........
...the TV deal and Sponsors are nowhere to be seen.......and this sport that is new to the city needs to get 10,000 punters to pay nearly 4 times the cost of a Blue Jays ticket to stand a chance of surviving.

I wish them all the luck in the world, but the reality is that with a level playing field and a level cap, they will struggle to survive as anything other than a rich-mans plaything and a place where pensionable players go to earn a crust.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Tue May 08, 2018 9:04 pm  

majorhound wrote:

I didn't think SL was boring last season when Cas were doing their stuff (bear in mind I write as a Fev fan so I'm hardly likely to be biased towards Cas.) Now Saints seem to have taken up the baton. But from what I've seen most sides are still playing five drives and a kick. I watched the Aviva highlights on C5 last night. They appear to be playing more football than we are at the moment. We used to call Union kick and clap, our game seems to be degenerating into that at the moment. You see more football in the Championship.

I think you quoted the wrong post. That has nothing to do with what I have been posting about.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Tue May 08, 2018 9:25 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Apart from stating the bleeding obvious, this still means that any promoted club is back in the middle 8 shake up and while the top 8 carry on cherry picking the best OOC players, ALL of the clubs in the middle 8 have to either gamble like hell or wait a couple of months longer to finalise their squads for the following season, it's not the same as 1 up, 1 down at all.
Back in the day, with a quarter of the season left, everyone would know which club was likely to be relegated (or maybe it was down to a couple), which, in terms of available time to sort out their squad, put most clubs on a level playing field.

If you were looking for a club to play for (assuming that you couldnt play for you beloved Wigan), would you pick a club that you were certain would be in SL or aim low and go for a club that could be relegated,which would possibly void your contract. It's a no brainer.

Of course all of the cards are stacked in favour of the incumbent SL clubs but, until they are CERTAIN of their SL status, they cant prepare fully for the following season, which puts the clubs in the MPG even further behind the rest.

I agree about the difficulty in recruiting players but no P&R system we have used would eradicate that. The same with players gravitating towards the teams that are usually at the top. It's part of the reason those clubs are usually near the top and generally always have been. The tendency since the introduction of the split season has been for clubs facing the qualifiers (from both divisions) to strengthen using short contracts that then either get renewed if a SL place is secured or are not if it isn't. Not an ideal situation but whenever there is risk of the drop then we will get this issue until such time as the sport is cashed up enough for the second tier to be full time too so as to remove the necessity for wages to drop or players to be shed.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Tue May 08, 2018 9:41 pm  

Call Me God wrote: meanwhile, in Toronto, their is quite literally no interest...see an action pic taken from the match at the weekend... ...3k there apparently....... ...did they bring the hot-dog canon? https://mobile.twitter.com/RichardHeyes ... 4667670528 https://mobile.twitter.com/renimaitua/s ... 2878823425

Call Me God wrote: meanwhile, in Toronto, their is quite literally no interest...see an action pic taken from the match at the weekend... ...3k there apparently....... ...did they bring the hot-dog canon? https://mobile.twitter.com/RichardHeyes ... 4667670528 https://mobile.twitter.com/renimaitua/s ... 2878823425

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Tue May 08, 2018 10:25 pm  

Bless....I like the trees in the stadium (ha ha), what type are they ? Have they been imported from the UK, in a kind of 'role reversal' way. Are they treated as if they are 'special trees' and also we should be grateful for them, and that the TREE organization will do anything to make sure that they 'prosper'. I think I am correct in my assumption....

Rergards

Percy Thrower

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Tue May 08, 2018 11:50 pm  

ThePrinter wrote: https://mobile.twitter.com/RichardHeyes/status/993110324667670528 https://mobile.twitter.com/renimaitua/s ... 2878823425 And? 3K in the one stand looks good, of that there is no doubt, but let's see if the videos are posted after the next few home games and if they pan around the entire stadium.....9,600 capacity Google toronto wolfpack v doncaster 16 SEP 2017.......watch the 18 minutes to 22......Doncaster try. Half full in the stand opposite the cameras......watch the conversion....half empty stand where the camera are......claimed attendance ‎8,546.....that's 1,000 empty seats? Youtube Toronto Wolfpack vs Oxford RLFC in home debut - May06 2017.....6,281.....How big is that BEET TENT There are plenty of other examples of the Wolfpack using smoke and mirrors to hide the reality of their "reach".....They claim one stand holds 6k the other 3k...... those stands look pretty identical to me, so 4,500 in each..........they lie about attendances.....it's a simple but reliable fact.

ThePrinter wrote: https://mobile.twitter.com/RichardHeyes/status/993110324667670528 https://mobile.twitter.com/renimaitua/s ... 2878823425 And? 3K in the one stand looks good, of that there is no doubt, but let's see if the videos are posted after the next few home games and if they pan around the entire stadium.....9,600 capacity Google toronto wolfpack v doncaster 16 SEP 2017.......watch the 18 minutes to 22......Doncaster try. Half full in the stand opposite the cameras......watch the conversion....half empty stand where the camera are......claimed attendance ‎8,546.....that's 1,000 empty seats? Youtube Toronto Wolfpack vs Oxford RLFC in home debut - May06 2017.....6,281.....How big is that BEET TENT There are plenty of other examples of the Wolfpack using smoke and mirrors to hide the reality of their "reach".....They claim one stand holds 6k the other 3k...... those stands look pretty identical to me, so 4,500 in each..........they lie about attendances.....it's a simple but reliable fact.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Wed May 09, 2018 12:40 am  

Call Me God wrote:

And?.

Just providing more footage of the crowd there....or are you the only person allowed to post an image of a Toronto crowd on here?