Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Mon May 07, 2018 6:10 pm  

[quote="wiganermike)

Regarding Toronto and the post split fixtures IIRC they played all of their home games, followed by all of their away games in the League 1 8s last season so I would envision them doing the same again. That would give teams going to Toronto at least 3 weeks to sort out logistics, time off work (if part time) etc.[/quote]

With regards Toronto last year, it was the other way round. They played there 3 away games 1st, then the 4 home ones.

With regards promoted clubs not staying up. Recruitment is hard when you don't know which division you're going to be playing in till September. By then the better players have joined other clubs, and your left in a stick or twist situation of either relying on the players who got you out, or players who aren't what you wanted/needed in the first place. But have experience.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Mon May 07, 2018 6:53 pm  

luke ShipleyRed wrote:

With regards Toronto last year, it was the other way round. They played there 3 away games 1st, then the 4 home ones.

With regards promoted clubs not staying up. Recruitment is hard when you don't know which division you're going to be playing in till September. By then the better players have joined other clubs, and your left in a stick or twist situation of either relying on the players who got you out, or players who aren't what you wanted/needed in the first place. But have experience.

The biggest problem for me is a club will have put together a squad of around 28 players to get themselves out of the championship,the problem then is those players will be on 2 or 3 year contracts and the club has no chance of changing those players.
Those players "should they get the club to the SL"will probably be on large pay rises,the salary cap then come into play should you wish to add to the squad.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Mon May 07, 2018 7:57 pm  

luke ShipleyRed wrote:

With regards Toronto last year, it was the other way round. They played there 3 away games 1st, then the 4 home ones.

With regards promoted clubs not staying up. Recruitment is hard when you don't know which division you're going to be playing in till September. By then the better players have joined other clubs, and your left in a stick or twist situation of either relying on the players who got you out, or players who aren't what you wanted/needed in the first place. But have experience.

You are correct, I did know that and meant to write that but for some reason I wrote it the wrong way about.

With the system in place any team gaining promotion has to be better than at least one SL team to finish higher or win the MPG. Both Leigh and Hull KR were better than 2 incumbent SL teams when winning promotion so aren't as behind the 8-ball as those clubs that won a Championship GF to go up (as they weren't necessarily better than any SL incumbent). Recruitment of players of the required standard is always going to be tough as players won't risk stepping down into a largely part time Championship. The statement I originally responded to said that promoted clubs were condemned to the middle 8s by the system. I acknowledge it is not easy but there is a way to avoid the qualifiers, the system doesn't condemn them to the bottom 4. Realistically the aim of a promoted club will be to finish in the top 3 of the qualifiers or as last resort win the MPG. It has ever been thus with relegation with a team needing to finish 1 place above the drop zone.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Mon May 07, 2018 8:17 pm  

luke ShipleyRed wrote:

With regards Toronto last year, it was the other way round. They played there 3 away games 1st, then the 4 home ones.

Sorry, but IMHO Toronto should play Home and Away alternate weeks when it comes to the qualifiers. The Only logistics can be sorted NOW by their sponsor, reserving seats now....it would be totally unfair on the rest of the competition if the wolfpack were permitted to play in blocks, especially as their opponents in Toronto would all be fresh of the plane.....but no doubt their imaginary 7k average and their imaginary TV deal and their imaginary "raising awareness" and their imaginary global sponsors flocking to SL" will see a competition dying o it's knees throw another "hail mary" to get them into SL......

....If Argyle and the sponsor wont fork out for this, then truly the emperors news clothes will have been revealed.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Mon May 07, 2018 8:26 pm  

wiganermike wrote:

You are correct, I did know that and meant to write that but for some reason I wrote it the wrong way about.

With the system in place any team gaining promotion has to be better than at least one SL team to finish higher or win the MPG. Both Leigh and Hull KR were better than 2 incumbent SL teams when winning promotion so aren't as behind the 8-ball as those clubs that won a Championship GF to go up (as they weren't necessarily better than any SL incumbent). Recruitment of players of the required standard is always going to be tough as players won't risk stepping down into a largely part time Championship. The statement I originally responded to said that promoted clubs were condemned to the middle 8s by the system. I acknowledge it is not easy but there is a way to avoid the qualifiers, the system doesn't condemn them to the bottom 4. Realistically the aim of a promoted club will be to finish in the top 3 of the qualifiers or as last resort win the MPG. It has ever been thus with relegation with a team needing to finish 1 place above the drop zone.

I agree with you there. With a combination of bad decisions in games and by the officials plus injuries being the reason were down in the middle 8's. The first year up is always about staying up anyway you can. Then you look to improve year on year like Wakefield (who were in the 1st mpg) have done for example. It like taking baby steps, stay up, get better players and keep improving.
This system (which I like other than the mpg game),is okay. . Leigh proved that promotion from the championship is achievable, Rovers need to prove that once up you can stay there.should we achieve this, then it is an inspiration to other clubs. And they know they can also be that team that goes and stays up.Though I would have the top 4 in the middle 8'school go to sl.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Mon May 07, 2018 9:11 pm  

Call Me God wrote:

Sorry, but IMHO Toronto should play Home and Away alternate weeks when it comes to the qualifiers. The Only logistics can be sorted NOW by their sponsor, reserving seats now....it would be totally unfair on the rest of the competition if the wolfpack were permitted to play in blocks, especially as their opponents in Toronto would all be fresh of the plane.....but no doubt their imaginary 7k average and their imaginary TV deal and their imaginary "raising awareness" and their imaginary global sponsors flocking to SL" will see a competition dying o it's knees throw another "hail mary" to get them into SL......

....If Argyle and the sponsor wont fork out for this, then truly the emperors news clothes will have been revealed.

Although im in favour of Toronto i tend to agree with the bit ive underlined,im not really sure 7 other clubs should be disadvantaged for the sake of one club,just doesnt sit well with me.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Tue May 08, 2018 2:36 am  

j.c wrote:

Although im in favour of Toronto i tend to agree with the bit ive underlined,im not really sure 7 other clubs should be disadvantaged for the sake of one club,just doesnt sit well with me.

Surely we are entitled to take account of the weather in Toronto. You just can't play rugby league there outdoors in February or March. Even April is iffy. Please cut the Canadian boys a bit of slack.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Tue May 08, 2018 6:43 am  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

Surely we are entitled to take account of the weather in Toronto. You just can't play rugby league there outdoors in February or March. Even April is iffy. Please cut the Canadian boys a bit of slack.

Think they're on about the M8s here young man - surely it can't be problem that time of year as well, or would it be too hot for them then

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Tue May 08, 2018 6:49 am  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

Surely we are entitled to take account of the weather in Toronto. You just can't play rugby league there outdoors in February or March. Even April is iffy. Please cut the Canadian boys a bit of slack.

The Qualifiers......clue is the other 7 teams bit and the fact that it was UNDERLINED.............are played in August and September.

Secondly, the "Canadian boys" don't actually have any Canadians......they are Leigh rejects with a Liberal smattering of ANZACS.

There is no reason other than fiscal that Toronto aren't able to play Home and away alternate weeks in the Qualifiers. As for the start of the season, maybe they should apply to join the NRL then instead of getting preferential treatment.....every team should be made play Home and Away alternate weeks.....if they can't play at home, then they should give up the their home advantage for those rounds, but the scenario this season is farcical with 10 teams all getting off the plane to face a fresh and acclimatised Toronto......Argyle needs to be told to show us the money or just forget it, because as it stands next year they'll bring nothing more to SL than Crusaders, PSG or London ever did......

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Tue May 08, 2018 7:23 am  

wiganermike wrote:

You are correct, I did know that and meant to write that but for some reason I wrote it the wrong way about.

With the system in place any team gaining promotion has to be better than at least one SL team to finish higher or win the MPG. Both Leigh and Hull KR were better than 2 incumbent SL teams when winning promotion so aren't as behind the 8-ball as those clubs that won a Championship GF to go up (as they weren't necessarily better than any SL incumbent). Recruitment of players of the required standard is always going to be tough as players won't risk stepping down into a largely part time Championship. The statement I originally responded to said that promoted clubs were condemned to the middle 8s by the system. I acknowledge it is not easy but there is a way to avoid the qualifiers, the system doesn't condemn them to the bottom 4. Realistically the aim of a promoted club will be to finish in the top 3 of the qualifiers or as last resort win the MPG. It has ever been thus with relegation with a team needing to finish 1 place above the drop zone.

The theory of what you are saying is correct.
However, there is a world of difference in competing with the bottom 4 in SL in a short sharp burst and competing with the whle of SL week in, week out and if/when those 50+ point reverses start to come in, even the "good" players become less than average.
To make it into the top 8, not ony would any promoted side need 6-8 good new players, they also have to gel and in regards to the overseas players, which Toronto and Toulouse will have plenty, those new "overseas" players have to avoid the dreaded home sickness, which seems to worsen just as soon as their new club get a few thrashings.
As I said, just about impossible to make the top 8.
Therefore, the best that a promoted side can hope for is to scrape through year 1, with a thinnish squad, pray for good luck with injuries and then try to improve their squad during the following season.
This is a major, major flaw with the current system.
However, should Toronto (and Toulouse) manage to get well into the mix and one or both actually gain promotion, there would be a new structure on the cards very quickly indeed.