Re: 2019 Super League Ins & Outs : Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:17 pm  

vastman wrote:

We that's the crux isn't it - you doubt. Yes he had a great games but he's had some stinkers in his time. Truth is you don't know, nobody does but IMO there wasn't one peice of defence or one try scored that couldn't have been scored by any of the top five SL wingers and I 'doubt' I'm wrong.

Read my lips TM now holds that shirt through merit, it's his to lose. That however doesn't make him te greatest winger in SL, if it did McGillvary would be the second and he isn't (not that he had a bad games but he's not the player of two years ago).

Finally he hasn't been the best winger in SL this year, Johnstone has, as the try scoring charts show - that isn't a maybe, that is a total absolute stone cold not even a Saints fan can twist it fact!

Tom Johnstone has more tries sure, but is soundly second best in every other stat. Makinson plays outside Morgan who isnt a wingers centre. Most of Saints attacking goes down Percivals wing.
By your benchmark, Ade Gardner was the best winger in SL due to the amount of tries he scored outside Gidley and Lyon. Johnstone has missed the same amount of tackles as Makinson but attempted 100 less which is an absolutely shocking stat. So you wonder why opposing fans call him a speed bump? Makinson has 7 times as many try assists and nearly 20 more Tackle Busts.

There is absolutely no comparison between the 2

This is why Bennett has chosen him.

Re: 2019 Super League Ins & Outs : Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:22 pm  

this thread has gone seriously OFF TOPIC....tut tut

Re: 2019 Super League Ins & Outs : Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:23 pm  

Ruune Rebellion wrote:

Tom Johnstone has more tries sure, but is soundly second best in every other stat. Makinson plays outside Morgan who isnt a wingers centre. Most of Saints attacking goes down Percivals wing.
By your benchmark, Ade Gardner was the best winger in SL due to the amount of tries he scored outside Gidley and Lyon. Johnstone has missed the same amount of tackles as Makinson but attempted 100 less which is an absolutely shocking stat. So you wonder why opposing fans call him a speed bump? Makinson has 7 times as many try assists and nearly 20 more Tackle Busts.

There is absolutely no comparison between the 2

This is why Bennett has chosen him.

Please stop proving a point to with stats. It stops the ahem.. healthy debate that goes on on here.

Re: 2019 Super League Ins & Outs : Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:24 pm  

Ruune Rebellion wrote:

Tom Johnstone has more tries sure, but is soundly second best in every other stat. Makinson plays outside Morgan who isnt a wingers centre. Most of Saints attacking goes down Percivals wing.
By your benchmark, Ade Gardner was the best winger in SL due to the amount of tries he scored outside Gidley and Lyon. Johnstone has missed the same amount of tackles as Makinson but attempted 100 less which is an absolutely shocking stat. So you wonder why opposing fans call him a speed bump? Makinson has 7 times as many try assists and nearly 20 more Tackle Busts.

There is absolutely no comparison between the 2

This is why Bennett has chosen him.

I agree. There is more to being a winger, these days, than putting the ball over the line. By your own admission, people like Eden and Gardner have been the best SL winger's due to being top of the try scoring charts. If Johnstone was the best winger in SL, then he wouldn't have been dropped by Chester earlier in the year.

Re: 2019 Super League Ins & Outs : Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:43 pm  

Wilde 3 wrote:

I agree. There is more to being a winger, these days, than putting the ball over the line. By your own admission, people like Eden and Gardner have been the best SL winger's due to being top of the try scoring charts. If Johnstone was the best winger in SL, then he wouldn't have been dropped by Chester earlier in the year.

Wrong.

Compare Makinson to every other Winger in the top 10 (in the try scoring table). He has attempted at least 50 more tackles than Johnstone, Eden, Faraimo, Lineham and even Grace who plays in the same team. He carried the ball more than them all, made more metres them all other than Lineham and he also assisted more tries then them; despite this he scored less tries than every single one of them.

Makinson is a different style of winger and in my opinion should perhaps be moved to the centres as I'd say he'd be more effective, maybe not in the Saints team with Percival and Morgan. It's a difficult one but the role of a winger to "put the ball over the line" is very much still the same and outlined by the stats.

Re: 2019 Super League Ins & Outs : Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:53 pm  

Ruune Rebellion wrote:

Tom Johnstone has more tries sure, but is soundly second best in every other stat. Makinson plays outside Morgan who isnt a wingers centre. Most of Saints attacking goes down Percivals wing.
By your benchmark, Ade Gardner was the best winger in SL due to the amount of tries he scored outside Gidley and Lyon. Johnstone has missed the same amount of tackles as Makinson but attempted 100 less which is an absolutely shocking stat. So you wonder why opposing fans call him a speed bump? Makinson has 7 times as many try assists and nearly 20 more Tackle Busts.

There is absolutely no comparison between the 2

This is why Bennett has chosen him.

Your right it isn't about just scoring tries and I personally think Makiisnon has justified his call-up, but picking up Johnstone and calling him a speed bump again, what does that make McGillvery, he made just 43 tackles and missed 21 last season, now that is shocking, Johnstone made 104 and missed 29, Johnstone has also just about made twice as many tackles busts as him, what does that tell you about those 2 then? even taking into account McGillvery played 20 games this season Also, you say that Morgan isn't a centres winger, neither is Tupou really with only 7 try assists.

ATEOTD It's pretty obvious they offer different things and have different styles just by looking at the stats, Johnstone quicker and will take more advantage of open space and is an out and out try scorer, while Makinson a better defender and probably stronger in hit-ups but doesn't score as many tries, plus Makinson is a few years older and has more experience.

By the way, just referring to stats isn't always the best, especially when Makinson has played 8 more games than the person you're comparing him to this season, 32 to 24, so his stats should be better in some areas.

Re: 2019 Super League Ins & Outs : Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:00 pm  

LifeLongHKRFan wrote:

Please stop proving a point to with stats. It stops the ahem.. healthy debate that goes on on here.

Like I've just said though, stats don't tell you everything do they and don't necessarily prove a point, he hasn't even picked up on the fact that one player has played 32 games and the other 24, so his stats should be better. He points to tackle busts and Makinson having 20 more, it's actually 15 more by the way 122 v 107, but how many more would Johnstone get if he had played the same amount of games, considering he averages about 4 a game, probably more than him in 8 games.

Re: 2019 Super League Ins & Outs : Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:09 pm  

Kennedy wrote:

this thread has gone seriously OFF TOPIC....tut tut

Wasting your breath, most posters on here are too thick to understand that this thread is about......

"2019 Super League Ins & Outs"

Mods..... I'm creating a separate thread titled "The Tommy Makinson/Tom Johnstone Love in - fill your boots"..... any chance we can clear this thread up and actually discuss RELEVANT topics to the thread?

Re: 2019 Super League Ins & Outs : Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:12 pm  

Ruune Rebellion wrote:

Tom Johnstone has more tries sure, but is soundly second best in every other stat. Makinson plays outside Morgan who isnt a wingers centre. Most of Saints attacking goes down Percivals wing.
By your benchmark, Ade Gardner was the best winger in SL due to the amount of tries he scored outside Gidley and Lyon. Johnstone has missed the same amount of tackles as Makinson but attempted 100 less which is an absolutely shocking stat. So you wonder why opposing fans call him a speed bump? Makinson has 7 times as many try assists and nearly 20 more Tackle Busts.

There is absolutely no comparison between the 2

This is why Bennett has chosen him.

We can all filter stats to make one player look better than another old boy...

Makinson
Tries - 11
Clean Breaks - 22
Avg gain - 7.83


Johnstone
Tries - 24
Clean Breaks - 42
Avg gain - 9.41

Also funny that you mention Percival not been a wingers centre as Johnstone is probably playing on the outside of what you would describe as the least `wingers centre` in the league in Bill Tupou, yet still managed to score 24 tries.

I agree there are arguments for both players, but to suggest "There is absolutely no comparison between the two" just makes you look silly.

Re: 2019 Super League Ins & Outs : Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:50 pm  

Get a life SaleSlim