Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:54 am  

Superted wrote:

This is absolutely the point. My ex-teammate mitigated with an argument of self defence and that it was part of an all in brawl instigated by the 'victim' - these were taken into account, but he was deemed to have used excessive force (don't know how it was legally worded) - but basically his reaction and force of his punch was seen as excessive and beyond defence - one of the reasons it went to Court was that the 'Victim' chose to press charges (For which he was widely criticised for locally - I understand even by his own teammates) - I can't imaging Hohaia will want to press charges.

You have to use reasonable force.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:03 am  

We all know it was an awful incident and that Flower was at fault, that his red was more than deserved and that a ban will be the correct punishment, but some of the comments like Flower potentially killing Hohaia and going to prison are embarrassingly over the top. Pointing that out isn't the same as defending Flower. Some people are just too desperate to believe Wigan are a criminal outfit. Players commit fouls, even yours.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:11 am  

TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:

but some of the comments like Flower potentially killing Hohaia and going to prison are embarrassingly over the top.

Dramatic yes, but it's true. What flower did to hohaia on the floor was very dangerous and people have been killed from similiar in town and the offending party has wound up serving a lengthy jail term. Just other week I saw in the news about a student in america who had been killed in a fight after one punch.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:13 am  

TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote: We all know it was an awful incident and that Flower was at fault, that his red was more than deserved and that a ban will be the correct punishment, but some of the comments like Flower potentially killing Hohaia and going to prison are embarrassingly over the top. Pointing that out isn't the same as defending Flower. Some people are just too desperate to believe Wigan are a criminal outfit. Players commit fouls, even yours. Tell that to this guys parents. http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/d ... ugby-union you are at particular risk after an initial concussive impact and any secondary impact can cause serious brain damage.

TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote: We all know it was an awful incident and that Flower was at fault, that his red was more than deserved and that a ban will be the correct punishment, but some of the comments like Flower potentially killing Hohaia and going to prison are embarrassingly over the top. Pointing that out isn't the same as defending Flower. Some people are just too desperate to believe Wigan are a criminal outfit. Players commit fouls, even yours. Tell that to this guys parents. http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/d ... ugby-union you are at particular risk after an initial concussive impact and any secondary impact can cause serious brain damage.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:15 am  

TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:

We all know it was an awful incident and that Flower was at fault, that his red was more than deserved and that a ban will be the correct punishment, but some of the comments like Flower potentially killing Hohaia and going to prison are embarrassingly over the top. Pointing that out isn't the same as defending Flower. Some people are just too desperate to believe Wigan are a criminal outfit. Players commit fouls, even yours.

Correct. However, this is a classic case of 'spiraling over-reaction'. Although a few nutters on here won't be satisfied with anything, for the most part the exaggerations are in response to the frankly ridiculous attempts by a number of Wigan fans to blame the entire incident on Hohaia. A simple acknowledgement of Flower's guilt, without any attached feeble caveats claimed as being made 'in search of the truth' or whatever, would have been the appropriate Wigan response.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:16 am  

I can accept the swipe from Flower to take Hohaia down in the first place, just as the bomb went up; I can accept Hohaia's reaction to that; I can even accept Flower's punch in reaction to Hohaia's reaction...all of that is just a bit of biff and something I want to see as part of this sport.

I cannot accept, however, Flower then punching a prone and defenceless Hohaia as he lay in the floor seemingly unconscious. And I cannot accept any Pie giving any excuses or reasons or defending of it.

All season, I've seen Pies saying to us Wires, "well Ben Westwood should have been sent off in last year's Grand Final" as we've commented on countless cannonball tackles, Kirk Dixon's broken jaw from McIlorum, late shots on players, purposely holding up Ben Harrison in a certain way so the third man can come in on his bad right knee that now needs a second operation over the Winter after two games against Wigan he had to stop playing in, Laithwaite having to go to hospital, Ratchford's broken ankle... we've not had a single one of those incidents not reacted to by pies without then saying "yeah well, Ben Westwood...".

Yeah well, Ben Westwood should have been sent off in last year's Grand Final and I have no excuse or reason for what he did - it was wrong and cowardly. But that doesn't mean we cannot talk about Wigan's/Wane's dirty tactics and culture within Wigan, started by Maguire when he first came over and now taken to another level by Baron Greenback.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:20 am  

This has to be dealt with severally, it even made the news on bbc3 late night bulletin. The only thing they showed was the punch on the floor.

Record ban or certainly 10+ minumen. The first punch and all that went on before was irrelevant. The punch on the floor when out cold was terrible and that's what's making the headlines, it goes out of the realms of the game, and an 4-8 game ban is not enough.

As for wane showed his class again, brainless thug.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:33 am  

TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:

We all know it was an awful incident and that Flower was at fault, that his red was more than deserved and that a ban will be the correct punishment, but some of the comments like Flower potentially killing Hohaia and going to prison are embarrassingly over the top. Pointing that out isn't the same as defending Flower. Some people are just too desperate to believe Wigan are a criminal outfit. Players commit fouls, even yours.

Flower obviously won't go to prison. Hohia would be well within his rights to press charges but he won't. And even if he did he won't serve time for something that happened in the heat of battle on a rugby pitch in a professional game.

However it isn't overreacting to say he could have killed him. People have been killed by a lot less. Frankly there's not many things more dangerous that he could have done. I'm just glad it was more of a jab than a haymaker otherwise it really could have been nasty.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:34 am  

As a relatively unbiased observer:
Flower hit Hohia. Not much in it, but thats where it should have ended.
Hohia elbowed Flower. Bad form and worth a penalty.
Flower threw a blindside punch that knocked Hohia out. Nasty! In Oz these days the punch is an automatic sin bin and it was at least worth that. Probably worth a send off and a week or two.
Flower punches unconscious man on the ground. Complete dog act. No excuses.

If performance enhancing drugs are worth up to two years he should get at least that. And feel damn lucky the cops aren't knocking on his door.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:39 am  

just watched it again, he should be on remand and waiting for a magistrate, 2 years minimum, common assault, GBH, ABH whatever else the Police can think of. If any Wigan fan can defend him that's just plain odd.