Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Fri May 04, 2018 2:20 pm  

Toronto and any other clubs can do what they want within the rules and include freebies and non-attending ticket holders in their attendance figures, but it's when folk on forums like this then start saying how great their attendances are that is wrong. Fax played Toronto last weekend supposedly with an attendance of 1658. From people actually attending, the actual number of bodies in the ground was probably around 700. This suggests that they included all their ST holders who were back in Canada (this was technically a home game for Toronto). All of that's fine from the Toronto club's perspective in recording a 1658 attendance, but tickets were only £5, and the reality was that half of that number at most were in the ground.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Fri May 04, 2018 3:00 pm  

HXSparky wrote:

Toronto and any other clubs can do what they want within the rules and include freebies and non-attending ticket holders in their attendance figures, but it's when folk on forums like this then start saying how great their attendances are that is wrong. Fax played Toronto last weekend supposedly with an attendance of 1658. From people actually attending, the actual number of bodies in the ground was probably around 700. This suggests that they included all their ST holders who were back in Canada (this was technically a home game for Toronto). All of that's fine from the Toronto club's perspective in recording a 1658 attendance, but tickets were only £5, and the reality was that half of that number at most were in the ground.

And for this reason they should not be allowed in SL ?

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Fri May 04, 2018 4:38 pm  

HXSparky wrote:

Toronto and any other clubs can do what they want within the rules and include freebies and non-attending ticket holders in their attendance figures, but it's when folk on forums like this then start saying how great their attendances are that is wrong. Fax played Toronto last weekend supposedly with an attendance of 1658. From people actually attending, the actual number of bodies in the ground was probably around 700. This suggests that they included all their ST holders who were back in Canada (this was technically a home game for Toronto). All of that's fine from the Toronto club's perspective in recording a 1658 attendance, but tickets were only £5, and the reality was that half of that number at most were in the ground.

Season ticket holders whether attending or not have paid for a ticket to the game. The club have received income from said season ticket holders for that game (pro rata). As long as it is a league fixture it is fine to include them, the data point used for attendance figures is tickets bought/admission fee paid not bums on seats or faces on the terrace. Every club declares then using the same criterion to calculate the figure.

The inclusion of free tickets is more disingenuous I agree (it would be better if freebies handed out but not used weren't counted) but when every club that offers free or discounted entry is including them it can hardly be a justifiable stick to beat a club with. Has there been much criticism of Swinton and other Championship and League 1 clubs that have run cheap/free entry for SL ST holders when they declared their crowds? I can't remember any.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Fri May 04, 2018 5:14 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

And for this reason they should not be allowed in SL ?

Not at all, I've no issue with Toronto being promoted if they perform on the field of play. The potential problem is if the club's benefactors lose interest, then they would go into free fall without a solid fan base to help pay wages and run the club.

wiganermike wrote:

Season ticket holders whether attending or not have paid for a ticket to the game. The club have received income from said season ticket holders for that game (pro rata). As long as it is a league fixture it is fine to include them, the data point used for attendance figures is tickets bought/admission fee paid not bums on seats or faces on the terrace. Every club declares then using the same criterion to calculate the figure.

The inclusion of free tickets is more disingenuous I agree (it would be better if freebies handed out but not used weren't counted) but when every club that offers free or discounted entry is including them it can hardly be a justifiable stick to beat a club with. Has there been much criticism of Swinton and other Championship and League 1 clubs that have run cheap/free entry for SL ST holders when they declared their crowds? I can't remember any.

I agree, other than I wasn't having a go at the club, it's at those individuals who start using attendances to "big them up". FWIW, I think that changing the rules so that attendances were measured using turnstile clicks rather than tickets sold would be far more sensible. The dictionary definition of "attendance" is "The number of people present at a particular place or event.".

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Fri May 04, 2018 5:39 pm  

HXSparky wrote:

Not at all, I've no issue with Toronto being promoted if they perform on the field of play. The potential problem is if the club's benefactors lose interest, then they would go into free fall without a solid fan base to help pay wages and run the club.

I agree, other than I wasn't having a go at the club, it's at those individuals who start using attendances to "big them up". FWIW, I think that changing the rules so that attendances were measured using turnstile clicks rather than tickets sold would be far more sensible. The dictionary definition of "attendance" is "The number of people present at a particular place or event.".

The attendance threads are usually one of two ways aren't they. Either people are taking figures at face value and shouting from the rooftops at how high they are or they are decrying them saying things like "4000 crowd, 400 more like". I was referring to some posts in general rather than yours specifically but some people will slate a club for the disparity between published figures and the number of faces in the ground while ignoring the fact that their club does the same. It's the reason I don't read attendance threads.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Fri May 04, 2018 6:54 pm  

So....
1. Toronto claim an average home gate of 7000ish
2. Only half of that number actually turn up
3. Of those that do, many turn up late
4. And many also spend much of the the match in the beer and food tents

That about it?

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Fri May 04, 2018 7:03 pm  

HXSparky wrote:

Toronto and any other clubs can do what they want within the rules and include freebies and non-attending ticket holders in their attendance figures, but it's when folk on forums like this then start saying how great their attendances are that is wrong. Fax played Toronto last weekend supposedly with an attendance of 1658. From people actually attending, the actual number of bodies in the ground was probably around 700. This suggests that they included all their ST holders who were back in Canada (this was technically a home game for Toronto). All of that's fine from the Toronto club's perspective in recording a 1658 attendance, but tickets were only £5, and the reality was that half of that number at most were in the ground.

Exactly. Why doesn’t this upset Leigh fans?

Regards

King James

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Fri May 04, 2018 7:35 pm  

Lebron James wrote:

Exactly. Why doesn’t this upset Leigh fans?

Regards

King James

Here you go, something for your obsession with Leigh fans, to fantasise over tonight.
Don't get too carried away now.





Regards

King Tut

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Sat May 05, 2018 8:17 am  

Mr Dog wrote:

So....
1. Toronto claim an average home gate of 7000ish
2. Only half of that number actually turn up
3. Of those that do, many turn up late
4. And many also spend much of the the match in the beer and food tents

That about it?

How do you know only half turn up?
All we have to go on is a few flat cappers, who are desperate for Toronto to fail, claiming this.

Even if this were true (which i don’t believe it is) 3500 is still a good Championship attendance and similar to what Salford get.

Re: Could Toronto, London and Toulouse all get promoted? : Sat May 05, 2018 8:20 am  

Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:

How do you know only half turn up?
All we have to go on is a few flat cappers, who are desperate for Toronto to fail, claiming this.

Even if this were true (which i don’t believe it is) 3500 is still a good Championship attendance and similar to what Salford get.

And thats without any away fans