Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:45 am  

headhunter wrote:

So in other words, it was a collision between two players chasing a kick. Flower knocked him to the ground and maybe he did make some contact with the back of the head so he clearly 'hit' him which is quite different than chasing after the ball.

Fixed it for you again.

HTH

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:46 am  

Fully wrote:

Flower hits Hohaia around the head which causes him to move into path of Flower who then sticks his arm around Hohaia's waist and the other across him to push him to the ground.

What do you suggest Hohaia is doing in the 2-3 seconds following the kick when he stands looking at Flower, who is chasing the kick?

Is he admiring his hair? Or thinking 'which way is this lad running and how can I get in his way?'

Clue: The latter.

That in itself is nothing unusual, nor is it particularly outrageous. Nor is the moment Flower - who is watching the ball until a suspiciously clumsy Hohaia steps into his path - shoves him to the ground.

The moment it tips into the oddly aggressive is the chase Hohaia then puts on to strike Flower in the face with his elbow/forearm. The first Flower punch is a beauty. The second is naughty.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:48 am  

headhunter wrote:

So in other words, it was a collision between two players chasing a kick. Flower knocked him to the ground and maybe he did make some contact with the back of the head but he clearly didn't 'hit' him or intend anything other than chasing after the ball. Apart from anything else, as we saw just seconds later, if Flower had actually intended to hit Hohaia then he would've been knocked out. Unless you think pushing and shoving while chasing a kick is justification for sprinting after someone and attacking them with a forearm smash to the jaw.

I think this is the first time I've ever been accused of being a Wigan fan BTW.

a) I didn't accuse, I asked you. It would have explained your "defence".
b) It wasn't a collision. Answer me this: if you're colliding with someone do you stick your arm out horizontally from your torso? The first picture shows him at the side of Hohaia. He could have carried on running without perhaps touching Hohaia. There's NO NEED for him to stick his arm out. If they collide as you put it, Hohaia will lean into Flower either going shoulder to shoulder or will get a mighty shove in the back that sends him sprawling forwards - not sidewards.

You seem to be under the interpretation as well that we are saying that Flower runs and smacks him hard to knock him out. No one has suggested that. I said he clocks him around the head, it may not have been particularly hard but he still did it, knocks Hohaia off balance then shoves him out the way.

There was no need for it, and you still haven't explained why Hohaia would react as he did if it was just a collision.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:50 am  

Fully wrote:

Everyone can form their own opinions but there is no need for Flower to raise his arm to be horizontal when running by Hohaia. Nothing will change my mind. It's easier to see in a clip format than still images - I made the point earlier that still images can be interpreted differently. I posted a few to try and add more balance to show the before and what happened after.

If you want to keep arguing differently be my guest but I guess a lot of people will see it differently.

Are you trying to argue that Flower intended harm to Hohaia? I think you're being extremely naive if so. At very worst, it was a cynical attempt at disrupting a player who was chasing the ball, and I'm sure plenty of Wigan fans would argue that Hohaia had deliberately moved into Flower's path and deserved to be shoved out of the way. They collided with each other, it happens, it's a physical sport. To me, that doesn't equate to making a conscious decision to sprint in the opposite direction to the play in order to deliberately attack a player's head.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:50 am  

Cronus wrote: :lol: What do you suggest Hohaia is doing in the 2-3 seconds following the kick when he stands looking at Flower, who is chasing the kick? Is he admiring his hair? Or thinking 'which way is this lad running and how can I get in his way?' I refer to you this post where I acknowledge this. viewtopic.php?p=17960824#p17960824 I have no reason to be biased in either clubs' favour. I've called it how I see it, as a neutral and as someone with no affiliation to either club.

Cronus wrote: :lol: What do you suggest Hohaia is doing in the 2-3 seconds following the kick when he stands looking at Flower, who is chasing the kick? Is he admiring his hair? Or thinking 'which way is this lad running and how can I get in his way?' I refer to you this post where I acknowledge this. viewtopic.php?p=17960824#p17960824 I have no reason to be biased in either clubs' favour. I've called it how I see it, as a neutral and as someone with no affiliation to either club.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:50 am  

Cronus wrote:

:lol:

What do you suggest Hohaia is doing in the 2-3 seconds following the kick when he stands looking at Flower, who is chasing the kick?

Is he admiring his hair? Or thinking 'which way is this lad running and how can I get in his way?'

Clue: The latter.

That in itself is nothing unusual, nor is it particularly outrageous. Nor is the moment Flower - who is watching the ball until a suspiciously clumsy Hohaia steps into his path - shoves him to the ground.

The moment it tips into the oddly aggressive is the chase Hohaia then puts on to strike Flower in the face with his elbow/forearm. The first Flower punch is a beauty. The second is naughty.

WOw you've caught it too.

Best log off as it looks like RLfans might have a catching virus.

The first is not clumsy. Flower is not some giant mindless troll. He swings the arm and clocks Lance from behind.

The AUP does not allow us to post the actual footage, so yes you can all spin it that actually it was all Lances fault and the GF should be re run.

But the video clip is clear Flower uses his right arm and swings it into Lances head. End of.

Night

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:51 am  

headhunter wrote:

Are you trying to argue that Flower intended harm to Hohaia? I think you're being extremely naive if so. At very worst, it was a cynical attempt at disrupting a player who was chasing the ball.

So now you're acknowledging that there was enough there to justify foul play and therefore the disallowing of any such try that may have been scored by acknowledging that it was a "cynical attempt to disrupt a player"

Your defence of it is getting worse. I give in. Not only that, you seem to be inferring things in my posts I've never said. Never once I've said that Flower charges into Hohaia like a raging bull on heat swinging his arm like a wrecking ball, trying to knock Hohaia's head to Timbuktu.

You seem to be labouring under the description of 'clocked him'. Let me rephrase: Flower moves his arm into the back of Hohaia's head.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:52 am  

as anyone who is on twitter will know, this has gone around the world. there are growing calls for a prosecution over and above the sport which will only intensify tomorrow.

not good for the sport at all. not good

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:53 am  

Flower's given Rugby League more publicity in 10 seconds of madness than the RFL have managed in 12 months.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:00 am  

the artist wrote:

as anyone who is on twitter will know, this has gone around the world. there are growing calls for a prosecution over and above the sport which will only intensify tomorrow.

not good for the sport at all. not good

I think we all need to get a grip. If Flower had stopped after the first punch nobody would be giving two hoots. Flower just needs to come out, apologise and we can all move on. There's been worse on a rugby field (O'Gara getting battered by McRea in RU being one)... The PR won't be great for the next day or two, but it's PR nevertheless...