Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:30 am  

And for purposes of balance, here's a further two pics from after that

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:33 am  

That looks like a push to me?

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:33 am  

Great, let's penalize every single time contact is made during a kick chase from now on (including when your own team does it), and allow players to retaliate by running 15 yards to smash an unsuspecting player in the jaw.

In fact that second set of photos quite clearly shows Hohaia running across Flower's path. But no, obviously that's not the case and the evil Flower clocked him with a haymaker in the back of the head.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:34 am  

headhunter wrote:

No, it wasn't an issue. If you penalize then you would be giving 5-6 penalties for similar incidents every game, especially in derby matches or the Grand Final FFS where everyone is fired up. There was absolutely nothing in the initial challenge. What this comes down to is that you're trying to create an issue that paints Flower as the bad guy because he later punched someone on the ground, and justifies Hohaia attacking an unsuspecting player in the head because he's a smaller man and was subsequently knocked out. If the roles had been reversed and it had been the much larger Flower deliberately running and leaping at Hohaia with an elbow then it would've likely caused a broken jaw and arguably be viewed as as bad an incident as what actually happened. Hohaia isn't blameless just because he wasn't physically capable of injuring Flower.

I have no reason to paint anyone as a bad guy. I don't support Saints, I don't support Wigan. I want to see a fair and legal game. I'd call it the same irrespective of the team.

Similar incidents? I see late challenges punished all the time, I see obstructions penalised and I see striking punished too. It was striking with the forearm by Flower to the back of the head of Hohaia.

If it was a collision, I'd say it was a collision. But it clearly isn't. Where did I say Hohaia shouldn't be punished? I didn't, I said I can see why he retaliated and that it was handbags and may have got a yellow.

But you didn't answer my question: are you a Wigan fan? If so, it would go a long way for you trying to justify why you're painting Hohaia as "the bad guy".

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:35 am  

Wigg'n wrote:

That looks like a push to me?

Flower hits Hohaia around the head which causes him to move into path of Flower who then sticks his arm around Hohaia's waist and the other across him to push him to the ground.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:37 am  

headhunter wrote:

In fact that second set of photos quite clearly shows Hohaia running across Flower's path. But no, obviously that's not the case and the evil Flower clocked him with a haymaker in the back of the head.

He's hit across the head which causes him to move into Flower's path.

I've shown you the first picture where his arm is stuck out behind his head. Or did his arm magically disappear?

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:37 am  

headhunter wrote:

Yes, it was an issue. There was absolutely something in the initial challenge. What this comes down to is that I'm trying to create an issue that paints Flower as the victime because he later punched someone on the ground, and I'm pretending Hohaia attacking an unsuspecting player in the head, when actually Flower started this whole thing with a headshot. If the roles had been reversed and it had been the much larger Flower retailiating at Hohaia with an elbow then it would've likely caused a broken jaw and arguably be viewed as as bad an incident as what actually happened. Hohaia isn't blameless just because he reacted to the initial strike to the head from FLower.

Wow you are struggling with your computer tonight, it must have that switch the blame virus.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:40 am  

headhunter wrote:

Great, let's penalize every single time contact is made during a kick chase from now on (including when your own team does it), and allow players to retaliate by running 15 yards to smash an unsuspecting player in the jaw.

In fact that second set of photos quite clearly shows Hohaia running across Flower's path. But no, obviously that's not the case and the evil Flower clocked him with a haymaker in the back of the head.

Keep spinning that lye.

Any more mis information you are putting out there on the net tonight.

Did JFK actually slap the shooter on the grassy knoll. (exaggeration obviously)

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:43 am  

Fully wrote:

Flower hits Hohaia around the head which causes him to move into path of Flower who then sticks his arm around Hohaia's waist and the other across him to push him to the ground.

So in other words, it was a collision between two players chasing a kick. Flower knocked him to the ground and maybe he did make some contact with the back of the head but he clearly didn't 'hit' him or intend anything other than chasing after the ball. Apart from anything else, as we saw just seconds later, if Flower had actually intended to hit Hohaia then he would've been knocked out. Unless you think pushing and shoving while chasing a kick is justification for sprinting after someone and attacking them with a forearm smash to the jaw.

I think this is the first time I've ever been accused of being a Wigan fan BTW.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:43 am  

Everyone can form their own opinions but there is no need for Flower to raise his arm to be horizontal when running by Hohaia. Nothing will change my mind. It's easier to see in a clip format than still images - I made the point earlier that still images can be interpreted differently. I posted a few to try and add more balance to show the before and what happened after.

If you want to keep arguing differently be my guest but I guess a lot of people will see it differently.