Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:17 pm  

Bull Mania wrote:

Be interesting what fans think when Fev or Fax maybe don't qualify for the second tier and end up playing in the not mentioned third division...

2004. But for a remarkable comeback in the last 15 minutes, Fax would have been relegated to the third tier if they'd lost to York. This is sport, and the ups and downs of promotion and relegation is what makes it so exciting. Every so often (sad git that I am) I watch that 15 minutes of sport to give myself a lift.

That's the magic of Rugby League.

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:18 pm  

Starbug wrote:

How long do you think it would take the current SL clubs to achieve that?

10 years ? , 20 ?

To put a business plan together? I'd hope the majority already have one ... That said I'd of hoped the rfl had one and that was clearly an assumption too far on my behalf.

Between the 14 currently in the league and the 5 or so in the championship we must be able to band together a competition of 12 who shouldn't face financial difficulty minus incompetence of their owners.

Unfortunately the incompetence of the rfl puts serious pressure on even the best run clubs

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:19 pm  

HXSparky wrote:

Sheffield were gash in that game, and didn't play to their normal game plan - most Championship clubs would have beaten Sheffield on that performance. Ditto for the Fax game against the Bulls in a CC match a couple of seasons ago - it was embarrassing to watch as as a Fax fan as we knew we were so much better.

Fax lost to Cas 34-35 in the CC on golden point, and I challenge anyone there to say that Cas were the better team on the day (it was an absolute cracker!).

Agreed but these are one offs where the championship clubs could prepare all week specifically. While Sheffiled and fax may not have played their best in those games, it could be because they couldn't cope with playing against a full time team. Defensive line speed, the ferocity of each challenge etc It makes such a difference. A one off game against a championship club, i would be very confident, but not certain of victory. Over several weeks, I think they will be blown away.

I genuinely would love Fex/Fax/Sheffield to be in SL, but the system we're going in to, they just won't be able to compete and it could financially hurt the clubs that yo-yo between SL and the split 2nd tier.

Should have been 12 team SL, 6 team player-off, one up one down.

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:20 pm  

dubairl wrote:

All so the championship clubs felt wanted.

...and that is the most stupidly inane comment I've ever seen on the VT, bar none. You do not have a clue.

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:21 pm  

HXSparky wrote:

2004. But for a remarkable comeback in the last 15 minutes, Fax would have been relegated to the third tier if they'd lost to York. This is sport, and the ups and downs of promotion and relegation is what makes it so exciting. Every so often (sad git that I am) I watch that 15 minutes of sport to give myself a lift.

That's the magic of Rugby League.

What do u watch most, that clip or the clip of the drop goal from the Grand Final? Still gutted!

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:26 pm  

Bull Mania wrote:

Agreed but these are one offs where the championship clubs could prepare all week specifically. While Sheffiled and fax may not have played their best in those games, it could be because they couldn't cope with playing against a full time team. Defensive line speed, the ferocity of each challenge etc It makes such a difference. A one off game against a championship club, i would be very confident, but not certain of victory. Over several weeks, I think they will be blown away.

I genuinely would love Fex/Fax/Sheffield to be in SL, but the system we're going in to, they just won't be able to compete and it could financially hurt the clubs that yo-yo between SL and the split 2nd tier.

Should have been 12 team SL, 6 team player-off, one up one down.

I think for those specific games, it was more down to poor tactics from the coaching staff of the respective Championship teams.

The athleticism of Championship players is improving (I've seen Fax training, and it's intense) and although the full-time element is always going to have an influence, disregarding anything that's happening now, the gap between the two leagues is (IMO) definitely closing.

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:29 pm  

HXSparky wrote:

The top 5 championship clubs will NEVER become a feeder club for anyone (Leigh had a go at it and have realised their mistake). I've read the whole thread, and mostly it smacks of a complete ignorance of what's going on the 2nd tier.

There is a real sense of elitism from SL supporters (backed up by a swift straw poll at work today, where the majority of SL fans didn't have a clue that any of this was happening).

The gap between the top of the Championship and the bottom of SL is less than many think, and the provision of extra funding for the top Championship clubs in the 2014 season will close that gap further.

This is sport, and although the RFL do seem to tinker too much, franchising has finally been recognised as a failure (I'm waiting for the falling on swords from certain Sky Sports pundits - not) and we need to do something different.

Straight promotion and relegation would be an option, although I'd prefer 2 up, 2 down rather than 1 up, 1 down (it used to be 4 up, 4 down!), but given the decision seems to be the 2 x 12 and then 3 x 8, let's try and embrace it...

...and for goodness sake, support your team through thick and thin!!

If it's a choice between becoming a feeder club and dying, I bet they'd change their minds pretty quickly, less cut their nose off to spite their face.

I don't think anyone is saying it's a huge gap. In fact there could be virtually no difference whatsoever and I'd say the same thing. Even if all the clubs in that group of 19 were financially viable, the sport, at this point, can't support that many top flight teams. So pick the best ones, and let them prosper, instead of constantly dragging down the majority for the sake of a few.

As for franchisi being a failure - it's supposed to be in place for 20 years, 50 years etc etc whoever told you that franchising would totally fix all the problems immediately was wrong, it takes time to wash out the bad eggs, punish them accordingly (even to the point of someone else stepping in if it's too bad) and let the years of stability start to work. Honestly with the amount I read about "franchising not working" you'd of thought it had been in place for 20 years.

So instead of funding 14 teams without being able to fully secure their finances, we should instead fund 20 so that 5 "might be able to bridge the gap"?

Though I agree, it's in place, so let's see how it goes, I honestly don't care about the structure any more, I just want someone to pick one and say this is what we're running with for the next 25 years

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:30 pm  

ChrisRover wrote:

What do u watch most, that clip or the clip of the drop goal from the Grand Final? Still gutted!

Both! For different reasons. As I say, that's what sport is about, and the dummy from Grix to score the try to keep us in the Championship, or the drop goal from Blacky to win the GF is another.

The dropped ball from Blacky on another day, which may have meant that Widnes wouldn't even have had the chance to get into SL is another matter.

These are all memories that stick in our minds!

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:31 pm  

HXSparky wrote:

2004. But for a remarkable comeback in the last 15 minutes, Fax would have been relegated to the third tier if they'd lost to York. This is sport, and the ups and downs of promotion and relegation is what makes it so exciting. Every so often (sad git that I am) I watch that 15 minutes of sport to give myself a lift.

That's the magic of Rugby League.

EXACTLY, but this structure won't bring that. If my team got into the bottom 4 and ended up in the split, i wouldn't be "devastated" as i know they will be back up next year. We could go on to win the "second tier" and i honestly wouldn't really care as the setup is so lopsided to be in the relegated 4 teams favour. They won't be an open bus parade that's for sure. I genuinely would have to consider whether i would pay on the gate for several weeks, plus a semi and GF (if thats what you want to call it) as i simply cannot afford it. God knows how a family of four will cope.

That financial hit of playing in front of small crowds but still having to operate the full time wage will hurt the next season. So we then get relegated again for several games to be promoted again and so on...

If Fax finished top of the table, a team full of part timers take on full timers. Only one winner. Fax then go back down to come up again, to get hammered by the full timers etc.

If it was a simple 1 up 1 down and my team was relegated, i would be devastated (which every fan should feel in sport at sometime) i would certainly buy an ST for the championship season and if my team got back up i would be over joyed. Yes we may come down again, but the difference is we have a full season playing as full timers against full timers. So we have a chance of survival.

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:38 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

If it's a choice between becoming a feeder club and dying, I bet they'd change their minds pretty quickly, less cut their nose off to spite their face.

You totally underestimate the passion and commitment from the people running the Championship clubs. Have a look on the Fax website or youtube and you'll see what I mean. These people have lived and breathed the club all their lives, and if you cut through them they'd be like a stick of rock but in blue 'n' white!

I've followed Fax through thick and thin for 40 years, but I have nothing on the individuals that are the bedrock of the club!

For me, I would follow Fax whatever league they play in.