Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:01 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

It begins with a proper business plan by the rfl, and ends with cutting away the clubs who don't/ can't/ won't compete. If it means championship clubs become feeder teams to the elite league so be it. If the people at those clubs want to be more than that, they can apply with a proper business plan proving they could compete on a higher spending level (aka a rich guy wanting to play in the big league buys them) and the rfl are competent enough to be able to tell between the real deal and poop stirring band wagoners.

So a business plan and competency, it shouldn't be a hard place to start ...

How long do you think it would take the current SL clubs to achieve that?

10 years ? , 20 ?

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:01 pm  

The top 5 championship clubs will NEVER become a feeder club for anyone (Leigh had a go at it and have realised their mistake). I've read the whole thread, and mostly it smacks of a complete ignorance of what's going on the 2nd tier.

There is a real sense of elitism from SL supporters (backed up by a swift straw poll at work today, where the majority of SL fans didn't have a clue that any of this was happening).

The gap between the top of the Championship and the bottom of SL is less than many think, and the provision of extra funding for the top Championship clubs in the 2014 season will close that gap further.

This is sport, and although the RFL do seem to tinker too much, franchising has finally been recognised as a failure (I'm waiting for the falling on swords from certain Sky Sports pundits - not) and we need to do something different.

Straight promotion and relegation would be an option, although I'd prefer 2 up, 2 down rather than 1 up, 1 down (it used to be 4 up, 4 down!), but given the decision seems to be the 2 x 12 and then 3 x 8, let's try and embrace it...

...and for goodness sake, support your team through thick and thin!!

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:04 pm  

SIMMSFAXTEDDY wrote:

Just read the whole thread and this post sums it up perfectly! Spot on.

Surely the 4 SL teams who finish in the bottom 4 will be able to beat, in fact no....... Trounce and embarrass the Championships top 4?!

Or will they?!!!????????

I for one can't wait to see some proper games with meaning! There's some very good things happening towards the top end of the Championship from the likes of Fev, Fax, Sheffield, Leigh and Batley. Not that you SL clubs will realise or even care about!

Finish I'm the bottom 4 next season and I suggest you may pay more attention to the forgotten founder members of RL!

Viva la revolution!!!!!!

Unfortunately i don't think the championship clubs stand a chance of promotion. I wanted change to allow the ambitious championship clubs such as Fax, Sheffield, Fev etc to have a genuine chance of getting into the top tier. But this is not it. We have evidence of this with the CC. Even when London who were simply awful last year, played against a red hot Sheffield at home, comfortably beat them. That's when Sheffield can go all out and play one game and throw the kitchen sink at London. This is a league where they will have to play FULL TIME pros week after week while they work full time jobs the rest of the week.

For this structure to truly work the likes of Fev, Sheffield, Fax etc need to be FT. The teams i've just mentioned may not even get into the second tier as don't forget two teams are relegated this year and may or may not stay full time. So if we go on 2013's table we will have Bradford, Wakefield, Salford, Castleford, London & Widnes in the second tier. Be interesting what fans think when Fev or Fax maybe don't qualify for the second tier and end up playing in the not mentioned third division...

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:06 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

This begs a further question re match pricing. I don't believe clubs in the second tier of 8 will be able to charge SL prices for matches. They will have to adopt championship rates. This would also apply to things like match sponsorship and corporate hospitality.

Some of the cheap season ticket "deals" in SL have been a bit of a joke!! Plus, certain of the season ticket prices mentioned earlier in this thread for SL clubs are less than we pay in the Championship!

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:07 pm  

I'm actually looking forward to it.

The Chairmen of the top tier of championship clubs, which will include both London and the other relegated team (Complete with parachute payments), will have to weigh up the benefit of spending heavily in the hope that they can compete with the 4 worst teams from SL so they can receive more cash (1.3 million) so they can spend more cash (1.6 million) on players whilst getting maybe 400 more away fans through the gates 11 times before missing the cut and playing their remaining fixtures AWAY at championship grounds and getting less ticket revenue? Hmmmm....that'll promote fiscal stability

Leeds, Wigan, Warrington, Hull FC, Catalans, St Helens, Huddersfield and A Another will make up the top tier......Salford, HKR and Possibly Bradford will be fighting to be the A Another......again, making decisions based on projected ticket revues IF they make the tope 8. When they miss out, rather than a visit from Wigan, they will find themselves visiting London....Hmmmm there's more of that Fiscal stability

The teams at the bottom end of the Championship will be the ones who are best looked after by this scenario. Without spending over the odds chasing a dream that if attained will last 12 months at best, they can develop teams of their own who, if they get lucky, might just win them a visit from 4 SL teams and their "hordes" of travelling supporters.....but if not, it's not a problem because they have cut their cloth accordingly anyway. That is actually fiscal stability!

So, to recap, the top 7 will be where they are now, with the other from 5 overspending in the hope joining them and 4 dropping into the middle zone, which isn't financially what they will have budgeted for. The top 6 or so in the championship will also spend heavily in the hope of getting games against these overspending SL clubs whilst the bottom 6 will be happy with their lot. Top and bottom of the system will be pretty financially sound, but the middle 11 clubs will be an overspending monster and is where the company liquidators and administrators will earn their keep.

In my opinion that is!

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:09 pm  

If Fax don't qualify I'll be bitterly upset with Halifax RLFC. That's it. I'll not criticise anyone but my own club????

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:11 pm  

Bull Mania wrote:

Unfortunately i don't think the championship clubs stand a chance of promotion. I wanted change to allow the ambitious championship clubs such as Fax, Sheffield, Fev etc to have a genuine chance of getting into the top tier. But this is not it. We have evidence of this with the CC. Even when London who were simply awful last year, played against a red hot Sheffield at home, comfortably beat them. That's when Sheffield can go all out and play one game and throw the kitchen sink at London. This is a league where they will have to play FULL TIME pros week after week while they work full time jobs the rest of the week.

For this structure to truly work the likes of Fev, Sheffield, Fax etc need to be FT. The teams i've just mentioned may not even get into the second tier as don't forget two teams are relegated this year and may or may not stay full time. So if we go on 2013's table we will have Bradford, Wakefield, Salford, Castleford, London & Widnes in the second tier. Be interesting what fans think when Fev or Fax maybe don't qualify for the second tier and end up playing in the not mentioned third division...

Sheffield were gash in that game, and didn't play to their normal game plan - most Championship clubs would have beaten Sheffield on that performance. Ditto for the Fax game against the Bulls in a CC match a couple of seasons ago - it was embarrassing to watch as as a Fax fan as we knew we were so much better.

Fax lost to Cas 34-35 in the CC on golden point, and I challenge anyone there to say that Cas were the better team on the day (it was an absolute cracker!).

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:12 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

In essence the restructuring of the league is a massive downsizing exercise.

SL is being reduced to an eight team professional league.

The remaining clubs within the rugby league community will be part time operations.
A small number of these part time clubs are likely to also employ a few full time professionals.

This will have a number of effects in my opinion.

Results between the BIG8 and the rest will become meaningless blowouts as full time pros clubs come up against part timers. This wont occur immediately but will develop over a number of years.
We are likely to see an increase in competitiveness amongst the remaining clubs as they revert to a more open semi pro structure.
Revenue will become even more concentrated amongst the BIG8 clubs.
A reversion to semi professional status will see marketing and player development budgets slashed or eliminated.
Reduction in player development has actually been pre-empted by the RFL, as their plans for the academy is for the league to contain just 10 teams, with a number of these sides being affiliated to regional development squads rather than specific club academies.

It will be interesting to see how fans respond to the new league setup.
I personally think clubs outside the SL top 8 will see a sharp fall off in support when they revert to the second tier of 8 setup.
Conversely the elite championship teams may get a small crowd boost when playing in the second league of 8.
Season tickets will I suspect be problematic. A SL super club like Wigan Leeds or Saints is unlikely to get a hit on season ticket sales due to fans perception that they are guaranteed to make the top8. However I suspect a club that could face playing second league of 8 football, for example Wakefield or Bradford, may see a sharp drop off in season ticket sales, with fans unwilling to stump up big money to watch second tier football.

This begs a further question re match pricing. I don't believe clubs in the second tier of 8 will be able to charge SL prices for matches. They will have to adopt championship rates. This would also apply to things like match sponsorship and corporate hospitality.

Word for word spot on. The negative reaction i've read all talk about attendances, blow out scores and unsustainable ticket prices/sales against wage costs.

The pros have mainly got excited about the possibility of their club getting into the top tier.

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:15 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

I suspect a club that could face playing second league of 8 football, for example Wakefield or Bradford, may see a sharp drop off in season ticket sales, with fans unwilling to stump up big money to watch second tier football.

That was already the case at both those clubs. Take away their mega cheapo season tickets and attendances collapse accordingly.

The Chair Maker wrote:

This begs a further question re match pricing. I don't believe clubs in the second tier of 8 will be able to charge SL prices for matches. They will have to adopt championship rates. This would also apply to things like match sponsorship and corporate hospitality.

More than half the current SL clubs under the current structure do not charge SL prices for matches now. Or hadn't you noticed all the cheap season tickets, wowcher, groupon, bogof, 50% off deals over the past few seasons?

Re: Today's big decision : Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:17 pm  

dubairl wrote:

its not just the bottom super league club fans who aren't happy its the majority of fans.
Whats going to happen?
Create instability (might be wake up call for some)
clubs going bust
Clubs having less funding
Clubs not give youngsters enough time
More overseas players
Clubs being replace like for like in potential wise
clubs playing a lot more games

All so the championship clubs felt wanted.

Clubs are going bust as it is so nothing will change there.
Clubs not giving youngsters enough time? Need reserve teams back for that instead of the stupid dual reg farce. Then the youngsters will still be getting game time and can step up to 1st team when needed and not just taken away from the dual reg team there linked to as and when.

All so the championship teams feel wanted? Have you never watched a championship game? Maybe you should. All the players have a full time job then have to train then play on a sunday, all at a great level. Thursday night games, work a day shift then play in the evening giving it everything they've got and putting there bodies on they line. To be fair a good % of the championship games last year put the full time Super league games to shame.

Do we want to feel wanted? No, we just want our chance to play at the top level and to see our players get some recognition for what they do.