Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:11 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Thanks for this, I can now explain to everybody how you went wrong.

Hull vs Warrington in 2011 = 10,845.........not 16,845

If you want to believe that a game between these 2 on a Friday night got almost 17,000 then can I show recent attendances for this game.....

Also
Warrington vs Catalans
2011 = 10,056........not 10,956

So using the actual attendances the drop is just under 3%, and looking at the figures, it's Bradford are really struggling to pull in the numbers that they did 2 years ago... what's the point of this thread again?

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:22 pm  

flatcap wrote:

So using the actual attendances the drop is just under 3%, and looking at the figures, it's Bradford are really struggling to pull in the numbers that they did 2 years ago... what's the point of this thread again?

Those arent even all the figures, the full figures show an increase but we have had to withdraw two clubs, Crusaders and Widnes because there is positive attendance difference and we cant be having that, for some reason.

Its also not a comparison between the first four rounds, for numerous reasons, including 2011 round one being the Magic Weekend and 4 rounds of SL not having been completed this year yet. So instead what we get is a fudged statistic comparing some games which happened in 2011 at different points of the season and the first four rounds of this season.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:25 pm  

ThePrinter wrote: Thanks for this, I can now explain to everybody how you went wrong. Hull vs Warrington in 2011 = 10,845.........not 16,845 If you want to believe that a game between these 2 on a Friday night got almost 17,000 then can I show recent attendances for this game..... 2013 = 10,712 (saturday) 2012 = 12,710 (sunday) 2011 = 10, 845 (friday) 2010 = 14,131 (easter monday) 2009 = 10,997 (saturday) 2008 = 11,998 (sunday) 2007 = 13,404 (sunday) 2006 = 9,247 (saturday) Apart from the Easter Monday game (which is still over 2,500 lower), none of the games come close to this 16,845 you're claiming, considering the 2011 game took place on a Friday night and one of the longest travels for Wire fans (excluding the obvious London/Catalans games) then I think it's pretty safe to say that almost 17,000 weren't packed into the KC that night. My source for the attendances is RLFANS very own slstats database, so perhaps you'd like to take it up with whoever is responsible for them? It also appears both our figures are incorrect for the attendance at the Hull V Warrington game in 2011. It wasn't 16,845 but more pertinently, it wasn't 10,845 either, despite your desperate efforts to portray a pattern of much lower historical attendance for that particular fixture in order to prove your erroneous assertion of 10,845. The attendance was actually 16,121 but if you're still not convinced, perhaps the official attendance of 16,121 according to the Hull club itself might convince you? Better add that 5K+ back to the 2011 total then, huh? I shall update my figures accordingly Oh... attendances still down by over 5% this year compared to the same fixtures back in 2011. Rounds 1 to 4 Fixtures (comparison between 2013 and 2011 - 24 fixtures, not including Widnes) Total attendance in 2013 = 220,648 (Avg: 9,194) Total attendance for same fixtures in 2011 = 232,744 (Avg: 9,698) % decrease = -5.20% Detail..... 24 SL fixtures Fixture..... 2013 attendance..... 2011 attendance Leeds V Hull..... 15,297..... 14,809 Salford V Wigan..... 5,383..... 6,266 Saints V Hudds..... 12,003..... 6,421 Bradford V Wakefield..... 10,263..... 12,835 Hull KR V Catalan..... 7,864..... 8,092 Warrington V Castleford..... 10,721..... 9,958 Wigan V Warrington..... 20,050..... 21,056 Catalan V Salford..... 6,872..... 7,156 Wakefield V Hull KR..... 9,237..... 7,283 Hudds V London..... 5,273..... 5,220 Hull V Bradford..... 10,952..... 11,346 Castleford V Leeds..... 9,103..... 9,860 Leeds V Salford..... 12,558..... 13,068 Saints V Hull..... 11,257..... 7,053 Warrington V Catalan..... 10,015..... 10,056 Hudds V Wigan..... 8,023..... 8,151 Bradford V Castleford..... 7,724..... 14,348 London V Wakefield..... 1,887..... 2,875 Bradford V Saints..... 8,203..... 13,224 Hull V Warrington..... 10,712..... 16,121 Wigan V London..... 11,590..... 12,813 Castleford V Catalan..... 5,205..... 4,889 Wakefield V Hudds..... 8,467..... 5,436 Salford V Hull KR..... 1,989..... 4,408 TOTALS..... 220,648..... 232,744 % decrease = -5.20% HTH

ThePrinter wrote: Thanks for this, I can now explain to everybody how you went wrong. Hull vs Warrington in 2011 = 10,845.........not 16,845 If you want to believe that a game between these 2 on a Friday night got almost 17,000 then can I show recent attendances for this game..... 2013 = 10,712 (saturday) 2012 = 12,710 (sunday) 2011 = 10, 845 (friday) 2010 = 14,131 (easter monday) 2009 = 10,997 (saturday) 2008 = 11,998 (sunday) 2007 = 13,404 (sunday) 2006 = 9,247 (saturday) Apart from the Easter Monday game (which is still over 2,500 lower), none of the games come close to this 16,845 you're claiming, considering the 2011 game took place on a Friday night and one of the longest travels for Wire fans (excluding the obvious London/Catalans games) then I think it's pretty safe to say that almost 17,000 weren't packed into the KC that night. My source for the attendances is RLFANS very own slstats database, so perhaps you'd like to take it up with whoever is responsible for them? It also appears both our figures are incorrect for the attendance at the Hull V Warrington game in 2011. It wasn't 16,845 but more pertinently, it wasn't 10,845 either, despite your desperate efforts to portray a pattern of much lower historical attendance for that particular fixture in order to prove your erroneous assertion of 10,845. The attendance was actually 16,121 but if you're still not convinced, perhaps the official attendance of 16,121 according to the Hull club itself might convince you? Better add that 5K+ back to the 2011 total then, huh? I shall update my figures accordingly Oh... attendances still down by over 5% this year compared to the same fixtures back in 2011. Rounds 1 to 4 Fixtures (comparison between 2013 and 2011 - 24 fixtures, not including Widnes) Total attendance in 2013 = 220,648 (Avg: 9,194) Total attendance for same fixtures in 2011 = 232,744 (Avg: 9,698) % decrease = -5.20% Detail..... 24 SL fixtures Fixture..... 2013 attendance..... 2011 attendance Leeds V Hull..... 15,297..... 14,809 Salford V Wigan..... 5,383..... 6,266 Saints V Hudds..... 12,003..... 6,421 Bradford V Wakefield..... 10,263..... 12,835 Hull KR V Catalan..... 7,864..... 8,092 Warrington V Castleford..... 10,721..... 9,958 Wigan V Warrington..... 20,050..... 21,056 Catalan V Salford..... 6,872..... 7,156 Wakefield V Hull KR..... 9,237..... 7,283 Hudds V London..... 5,273..... 5,220 Hull V Bradford..... 10,952..... 11,346 Castleford V Leeds..... 9,103..... 9,860 Leeds V Salford..... 12,558..... 13,068 Saints V Hull..... 11,257..... 7,053 Warrington V Catalan..... 10,015..... 10,056 Hudds V Wigan..... 8,023..... 8,151 Bradford V Castleford..... 7,724..... 14,348 London V Wakefield..... 1,887..... 2,875 Bradford V Saints..... 8,203..... 13,224 Hull V Warrington..... 10,712..... 16,121 Wigan V London..... 11,590..... 12,813 Castleford V Catalan..... 5,205..... 4,889 Wakefield V Hudds..... 8,467..... 5,436 Salford V Hull KR..... 1,989..... 4,408 TOTALS..... 220,648..... 232,744 % decrease = -5.20% HTH

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:04 am  

UPDATE ON sky VIEWING FIGURES... (Source: http://www.barb.co.uk) Leeds V Hull (Fri) Round 1 2013... Viewers=188,000 Widnes V Wakefield (Fri) Round 1 2012... Viewers=251,000 % fall in viewing figures = -25.10% Wigan V Warrington (Fri) Round 2 2013... Viewers=206,000 St Helens V Salford (Fri) Round 2 2012... Viewers=278,000 % fall in viewing figures = -25.90% Bradford V Castleford (Sat) Round 3 2013... Viewers=126,000 Huddersfield V Warrington (Sat) Round 3 2012... Viewers=165,000 % fall in viewing figures = -23.64% Other viewing figures available... St Helens V Huddersfield (Sat) Round 1 2013... Viewers=168,000 Wigan V Leeds (Sat) Round 2 2012... Viewers=220,000

UPDATE ON sky VIEWING FIGURES... (Source: http://www.barb.co.uk) Leeds V Hull (Fri) Round 1 2013... Viewers=188,000 Widnes V Wakefield (Fri) Round 1 2012... Viewers=251,000 % fall in viewing figures = -25.10% Wigan V Warrington (Fri) Round 2 2013... Viewers=206,000 St Helens V Salford (Fri) Round 2 2012... Viewers=278,000 % fall in viewing figures = -25.90% Bradford V Castleford (Sat) Round 3 2013... Viewers=126,000 Huddersfield V Warrington (Sat) Round 3 2012... Viewers=165,000 % fall in viewing figures = -23.64% Other viewing figures available... St Helens V Huddersfield (Sat) Round 1 2013... Viewers=168,000 Wigan V Leeds (Sat) Round 2 2012... Viewers=220,000

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:20 am  

It's quite scary how much pleasure you seem to take from putting your supposed favourite sport down.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:27 am  

JonB95 wrote:

It's quite scary how much pleasure you seem to take from putting your supposed favourite sport down.

I play the panto villian over on League Unlimited...I suspect young William here is doing the same, because as oft as I have been accused of being one,I have never seen or spoken to a Union Troll
RL supporters are sometimes over analytical to the point of suicide watch being required....but young Bill here does have a point.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:49 am  

William Eve wrote: UPDATE ON sky VIEWING FIGURES... (Source: http://www.barb.co.uk) Leeds V Hull (Fri) Round 1 2013... Viewers=188,000 Widnes V Wakefield (Fri) Round 1 2012... Viewers=251,000 % fall in viewing figures = -25.10% Wigan V Warrington (Fri) Round 2 2013... Viewers=206,000 St Helens V Salford (Fri) Round 2 2012... Viewers=278,000 % fall in viewing figures = -25.90% Bradford V Castleford (Sat) Round 3 2013... Viewers=126,000 Huddersfield V Warrington (Sat) Round 3 2012... Viewers=165,000 % fall in viewing figures = -23.64% Other viewing figures available... St Helens V Huddersfield (Sat) Round 1 2013... Viewers=168,000 Wigan V Leeds (Sat) Round 2 2012... Viewers=220,000 To avoid risking the wrath of Smokey, etc., I'll wait for their explanation of these figures. The first one is the strangest ( and most worrying ). At first glance these are catastrophic falls - what's the 'innocent' explanation?

William Eve wrote: UPDATE ON sky VIEWING FIGURES... (Source: http://www.barb.co.uk) Leeds V Hull (Fri) Round 1 2013... Viewers=188,000 Widnes V Wakefield (Fri) Round 1 2012... Viewers=251,000 % fall in viewing figures = -25.10% Wigan V Warrington (Fri) Round 2 2013... Viewers=206,000 St Helens V Salford (Fri) Round 2 2012... Viewers=278,000 % fall in viewing figures = -25.90% Bradford V Castleford (Sat) Round 3 2013... Viewers=126,000 Huddersfield V Warrington (Sat) Round 3 2012... Viewers=165,000 % fall in viewing figures = -23.64% Other viewing figures available... St Helens V Huddersfield (Sat) Round 1 2013... Viewers=168,000 Wigan V Leeds (Sat) Round 2 2012... Viewers=220,000 To avoid risking the wrath of Smokey, etc., I'll wait for their explanation of these figures. The first one is the strangest ( and most worrying ). At first glance these are catastrophic falls - what's the 'innocent' explanation?

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:55 am  

William Eve wrote: My source for the attendances is RLFANS very own slstats database, so perhaps you'd like to take it up with whoever is responsible for them? It also appears both our figures are incorrect for the attendance at the Hull V Warrington game in 2011. It wasn't 16,845 but more pertinently, it wasn't 10,845 either, despite your desperate efforts to portray a pattern of much lower historical attendance for that particular fixture in order to prove your erroneous assertion of 10,845. The attendance was actually 16,121 but if you're still not convinced, perhaps the official attendance of 16,121 according to the Hull club itself might convince you? Better add that 5K+ back to the 2011 total then, huh? I shall update my figures accordingly Oh... attendances still down by over 5% this year compared to the same fixtures back in 2011. Rounds 1 to 4 Fixtures (comparison between 2013 and 2011 - 24 fixtures, not including Widnes) Total attendance in 2013 = 220,648 (Avg: 9,194) Total attendance for same fixtures in 2011 = 232,744 (Avg: 9,698) % decrease = -5.20% Detail..... 24 SL fixtures Fixture..... 2013 attendance..... 2011 attendance Leeds V Hull..... 15,297..... 14,809 Salford V Wigan..... 5,383..... 6,266 Saints V Hudds..... 12,003..... 6,421 Bradford V Wakefield..... 10,263..... 12,835 Hull KR V Catalan..... 7,864..... 8,092 Warrington V Castleford..... 10,721..... 9,958 Wigan V Warrington..... 20,050..... 21,056 Catalan V Salford..... 6,872..... 7,156 Wakefield V Hull KR..... 9,237..... 7,283 Hudds V London..... 5,273..... 5,220 Hull V Bradford..... 10,952..... 11,346 Castleford V Leeds..... 9,103..... 9,860 Leeds V Salford..... 12,558..... 13,068 Saints V Hull..... 11,257..... 7,053 Warrington V Catalan..... 10,015..... 10,056 Hudds V Wigan..... 8,023..... 8,151 Bradford V Castleford..... 7,724..... 14,348 London V Wakefield..... 1,887..... 2,875 Bradford V Saints..... 8,203..... 13,224 Hull V Warrington..... 10,712..... 16,121 Wigan V London..... 11,590..... 12,813 Castleford V Catalan..... 5,205..... 4,889 Wakefield V Hudds..... 8,467..... 5,436 Salford V Hull KR..... 1,989..... 4,408 TOTALS..... 220,648..... 232,744 % decrease = -5.20% HTH So RL fans is definitely correct and yet the official SL website shows the attendance for the Hull - Warrington at a more realistic 10845 and why dont you include Widnes in your calculations, is this because they are better supported than the Crusaders, or is there another reason ?

William Eve wrote: My source for the attendances is RLFANS very own slstats database, so perhaps you'd like to take it up with whoever is responsible for them? It also appears both our figures are incorrect for the attendance at the Hull V Warrington game in 2011. It wasn't 16,845 but more pertinently, it wasn't 10,845 either, despite your desperate efforts to portray a pattern of much lower historical attendance for that particular fixture in order to prove your erroneous assertion of 10,845. The attendance was actually 16,121 but if you're still not convinced, perhaps the official attendance of 16,121 according to the Hull club itself might convince you? Better add that 5K+ back to the 2011 total then, huh? I shall update my figures accordingly Oh... attendances still down by over 5% this year compared to the same fixtures back in 2011. Rounds 1 to 4 Fixtures (comparison between 2013 and 2011 - 24 fixtures, not including Widnes) Total attendance in 2013 = 220,648 (Avg: 9,194) Total attendance for same fixtures in 2011 = 232,744 (Avg: 9,698) % decrease = -5.20% Detail..... 24 SL fixtures Fixture..... 2013 attendance..... 2011 attendance Leeds V Hull..... 15,297..... 14,809 Salford V Wigan..... 5,383..... 6,266 Saints V Hudds..... 12,003..... 6,421 Bradford V Wakefield..... 10,263..... 12,835 Hull KR V Catalan..... 7,864..... 8,092 Warrington V Castleford..... 10,721..... 9,958 Wigan V Warrington..... 20,050..... 21,056 Catalan V Salford..... 6,872..... 7,156 Wakefield V Hull KR..... 9,237..... 7,283 Hudds V London..... 5,273..... 5,220 Hull V Bradford..... 10,952..... 11,346 Castleford V Leeds..... 9,103..... 9,860 Leeds V Salford..... 12,558..... 13,068 Saints V Hull..... 11,257..... 7,053 Warrington V Catalan..... 10,015..... 10,056 Hudds V Wigan..... 8,023..... 8,151 Bradford V Castleford..... 7,724..... 14,348 London V Wakefield..... 1,887..... 2,875 Bradford V Saints..... 8,203..... 13,224 Hull V Warrington..... 10,712..... 16,121 Wigan V London..... 11,590..... 12,813 Castleford V Catalan..... 5,205..... 4,889 Wakefield V Hudds..... 8,467..... 5,436 Salford V Hull KR..... 1,989..... 4,408 TOTALS..... 220,648..... 232,744 % decrease = -5.20% HTH So RL fans is definitely correct and yet the official SL website shows the attendance for the Hull - Warrington at a more realistic 10845 and why dont you include Widnes in your calculations, is this because they are better supported than the Crusaders, or is there another reason ?

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:37 pm  

William Eve wrote: My source for the attendances is RLFANS very own slstats database, so perhaps you'd like to take it up with whoever is responsible for them? Not really because they haven't created a incorrect thread trying to imply a shocking drop in attendances. Don't be shifting the blame just because you were too lazy to double check any figure that seemed strange just because it worked in your favour and would've helped your agenda. William Eve wrote: It also appears both our figures are incorrect for the attendance at the Hull V Warrington game in 2011. No, just yours. William Eve wrote: It wasn't 16,845 I know, I was the one who told you this. William Eve wrote: it wasn't 10,845 either, despite your desperate efforts to portray a pattern of much lower historical attendance for that particular fixture in order to prove your erroneous assertion of 10,845. Yeah we wouldn't want somebody looking at previous years attendances to prove something now would we Billy William Eve wrote: The attendance was actually 16,121 but if you're still not convinced, perhaps the official attendance of 16,121 according to the Hull club itself might convince you? Not really when I've seen 4 different sites that give the much more realistic number of 10,845 William Eve wrote: Better add that 5K+ back to the 2011 total then, huh? I shall update my figures accordingly. No, because then you'll still be wrong. William Eve wrote: Oh... attendances still down by over 5% this year compared to the same fixtures back in 2011. Wrong again! .................................... Hull in 2011 @ home vs Leeds = 12,513 vs Wigan = 11,729 vs Saints = 11,993 (on a Bank Holiday Monday) If you still want to bury your head in the sand and not accept you are wrong and believe the Wire game got around 4,000 more than these for a Friday night game shown on TV then so be it, we in the real world will realise that it didn't get 16,000+ Or perhaps because it was Hull's last home game of the season is why you think it's so high, lets compare against other recent last weekly round games at the KC..... 2012 = 11,607 vs Cas'ford (not on tv, Saturday night) Round 27 2010 = 11,762 vs Crusaders (not on tv, Friday night) Round 25 2009 = 10.412 vs Bradford (on tv, Friday night) Round 27 Note the 2009 game, on the same night of the week and also on tv........attendance 10,412 Think we'll stick with 10,845 shall we

William Eve wrote: My source for the attendances is RLFANS very own slstats database, so perhaps you'd like to take it up with whoever is responsible for them? Not really because they haven't created a incorrect thread trying to imply a shocking drop in attendances. Don't be shifting the blame just because you were too lazy to double check any figure that seemed strange just because it worked in your favour and would've helped your agenda. William Eve wrote: It also appears both our figures are incorrect for the attendance at the Hull V Warrington game in 2011. No, just yours. William Eve wrote: It wasn't 16,845 I know, I was the one who told you this. William Eve wrote: it wasn't 10,845 either, despite your desperate efforts to portray a pattern of much lower historical attendance for that particular fixture in order to prove your erroneous assertion of 10,845. Yeah we wouldn't want somebody looking at previous years attendances to prove something now would we Billy William Eve wrote: The attendance was actually 16,121 but if you're still not convinced, perhaps the official attendance of 16,121 according to the Hull club itself might convince you? Not really when I've seen 4 different sites that give the much more realistic number of 10,845 William Eve wrote: Better add that 5K+ back to the 2011 total then, huh? I shall update my figures accordingly. No, because then you'll still be wrong. William Eve wrote: Oh... attendances still down by over 5% this year compared to the same fixtures back in 2011. Wrong again! .................................... Hull in 2011 @ home vs Leeds = 12,513 vs Wigan = 11,729 vs Saints = 11,993 (on a Bank Holiday Monday) If you still want to bury your head in the sand and not accept you are wrong and believe the Wire game got around 4,000 more than these for a Friday night game shown on TV then so be it, we in the real world will realise that it didn't get 16,000+ Or perhaps because it was Hull's last home game of the season is why you think it's so high, lets compare against other recent last weekly round games at the KC..... 2012 = 11,607 vs Cas'ford (not on tv, Saturday night) Round 27 2010 = 11,762 vs Crusaders (not on tv, Friday night) Round 25 2009 = 10.412 vs Bradford (on tv, Friday night) Round 27 Note the 2009 game, on the same night of the week and also on tv........attendance 10,412 Think we'll stick with 10,845 shall we

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:17 pm  

RLBandit wrote: William Eve wrote: UPDATE ON sky VIEWING FIGURES... (Source: http://www.barb.co.uk) Leeds V Hull (Fri) Round 1 2013... Viewers=188,000 Widnes V Wakefield (Fri) Round 1 2012... Viewers=251,000 % fall in viewing figures = -25.10% Wigan V Warrington (Fri) Round 2 2013... Viewers=206,000 St Helens V Salford (Fri) Round 2 2012... Viewers=278,000 % fall in viewing figures = -25.90% Bradford V Castleford (Sat) Round 3 2013... Viewers=126,000 Huddersfield V Warrington (Sat) Round 3 2012... Viewers=165,000 % fall in viewing figures = -23.64% Other viewing figures available... St Helens V Huddersfield (Sat) Round 1 2013... Viewers=168,000 Wigan V Leeds (Sat) Round 2 2012... Viewers=220,000 To avoid risking the wrath of Smokey, etc., I'll wait for their explanation of these figures. The first one is the strangest ( and most worrying ). At first glance these are catastrophic falls - what's the 'innocent' explanation? Sure I'll pick up the ball and add some figures 5 of the televised games we've had in 2013 were also on TV in 2012 3 out of the 5 got a bigger viewing number 2013........2012 Saints vs Hudds = 168,000....81,000 (+87,000) Wire vs Catalan = 216,000......151,000 (+65,000) Bradford vs Cas'ford = 126,000......lower than 88,000 (it was shown on SS1 yet didn't make the top 10 that week which had the tenth placed progamme at 88,000)......(+38,000 and more) 2 which got lower numbers Wigan vs Wire = 206,000.....295,000 (-89,000) Leeds vs Hull = 188,000......196,000 (-8,000) So for those 5 compariable games, at least 93,000 more (probably even more depending on Bra/Cas 2012) watched the same games in 2013. Always happy to add proper context to proceedings.

RLBandit wrote: William Eve wrote: UPDATE ON sky VIEWING FIGURES... (Source: http://www.barb.co.uk) Leeds V Hull (Fri) Round 1 2013... Viewers=188,000 Widnes V Wakefield (Fri) Round 1 2012... Viewers=251,000 % fall in viewing figures = -25.10% Wigan V Warrington (Fri) Round 2 2013... Viewers=206,000 St Helens V Salford (Fri) Round 2 2012... Viewers=278,000 % fall in viewing figures = -25.90% Bradford V Castleford (Sat) Round 3 2013... Viewers=126,000 Huddersfield V Warrington (Sat) Round 3 2012... Viewers=165,000 % fall in viewing figures = -23.64% Other viewing figures available... St Helens V Huddersfield (Sat) Round 1 2013... Viewers=168,000 Wigan V Leeds (Sat) Round 2 2012... Viewers=220,000 To avoid risking the wrath of Smokey, etc., I'll wait for their explanation of these figures. The first one is the strangest ( and most worrying ). At first glance these are catastrophic falls - what's the 'innocent' explanation? Sure I'll pick up the ball and add some figures 5 of the televised games we've had in 2013 were also on TV in 2012 3 out of the 5 got a bigger viewing number 2013........2012 Saints vs Hudds = 168,000....81,000 (+87,000) Wire vs Catalan = 216,000......151,000 (+65,000) Bradford vs Cas'ford = 126,000......lower than 88,000 (it was shown on SS1 yet didn't make the top 10 that week which had the tenth placed progamme at 88,000)......(+38,000 and more) 2 which got lower numbers Wigan vs Wire = 206,000.....295,000 (-89,000) Leeds vs Hull = 188,000......196,000 (-8,000) So for those 5 compariable games, at least 93,000 more (probably even more depending on Bra/Cas 2012) watched the same games in 2013. Always happy to add proper context to proceedings.