Re: Toulouse : Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:00 pm  

brearley84 wrote:

again not so good this weekend with another loss, not looking that promising for sl 2018

Re: Toulouse : Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:09 pm  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

1.To compete at the highest level, and to raise their playing standards and their popular support
2. yes,
3. yes.

But surely, therefore, if the French leagues themselves were stronger and had better financial support and media coverage, the demand to get into SL would diminish. I don't see clubs in football Ligue 1 wanting to play in the Premier League. Therefore the answer is actually for the french RL along with the RFL governing body to grow RL domestically in France rather than reduce the need by simply including them in the English leagues. Long term doing so is self defeating even though it may look good in the short or medium term.

Or, as I finished my previous post, make SL truly European, and have the top sides in all domestic top leagues instead of just the top four of the english championship. It then truly becomes a European SL.

Re: Toulouse : Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:53 pm  

Gallanteer wrote:

But surely, therefore, if the French leagues themselves were stronger and had better financial support and media coverage, the demand to get into SL would diminish. I don't see clubs in football Ligue 1 wanting to play in the Premier League. Therefore the answer is actually for the french RL along with the RFL governing body to grow RL domestically in France rather than reduce the need by simply including them in the English leagues. Long term doing so is self defeating even though it may look good in the short or medium term.

Or, as I finished my previous post, make SL truly European, and have the top sides in all domestic top leagues instead of just the top four of the english championship. It then truly becomes a European SL.

There aren't enough quality players and no money to support a full professional league in France. The RFL has no money to promote rugby league in France. The French clubs in Super League or aspiring to be (i.e. Catalans and Toulouse respectively) are largely self-funded (with a little Sky money). The only way to grow rugby league in France is to have a gradually increasing number of French clubs in the British structure, preferably in Super League. The absolute maximum we could contemplate in the next five years is three French clubs in Super League, but as their junior systems develop, we could develop a French player surplus and subsequently invite a fourth French club into the structure, without further diluting the French elite talent pool (subject to the club having financial backing). The French Elite would remain a limited reservoir of talent for the Super League clubs, but the junior systems of the French Super League clubs would be the main production lines of French talent.

Given the Toronto Wolfpack enterprise, possibly to be followed by Montreal within 3-5 years, and then possibly Boston, New York, Philadelphia and Jacksonville/Florida thereafter, the Super League would in effect become the equivalent of the Champions league on a transatlantic scale.

Re: Toulouse : Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:49 pm  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

There aren't enough quality players and no money to support a full professional league in France. The RFL has no money to promote rugby league in France. The French clubs in Super League or aspiring to be (i.e. Catalans and Toulouse respectively) are largely self-funded (with a little Sky money). The only way to grow rugby league in France is to have a gradually increasing number of French clubs in the British structure, preferably in Super League. The absolute maximum we could contemplate in the next five years is three French clubs in Super League, but as their junior systems develop, we could develop a French player surplus and subsequently invite a fourth French club into the structure, without further diluting the French elite talent pool (subject to the club having financial backing). The French Elite would remain a limited reservoir of talent for the Super League clubs, but the junior systems of the French Super League clubs would be the main production lines of French talent.

Given the Toronto Wolfpack enterprise, possibly to be followed by Montreal within 3-5 years, and then possibly Boston, New York, Philadelphia and Jacksonville/Florida thereafter, the Super League would in effect become the equivalent of the Champions league on a transatlantic scale.

In all honesty. That is the most sensible post you have ever written. France could not sustain a top quality RL league. They need teams in the British structure and because RL is such a small sport I for one encourage this. I'd be tempted to invite at least two more French clubs into League 1 if they want it. However you are massively pushing it when you say 3 French SL teams. You'd be lucky to get two sustainable French teams there. About developing the French juniors point is good. And I sincerely want a strong Catalan club and a strong Toulouse in order to improve the French team and have at least 4 major international teams.

However the only negative I have about the French especially Catalan is they do not promote the French youngsters enough. Catalan have been here 11 years and we have seen Bosc, Pelissier, Mounis, Duport who are French and have been decent but I am yet to see a quality French spine and pack, they bring in too many overseas when they should be using the vast player pool they have. Escare is quality and for me Catalan should have kept hold and built a team around him. They should have first refusal of French players.

Again if Toronto prove themselves and get into SL, great. But I expect the number of Canadian and North American players to grow year on year. That is why I am extremely pleased they have started the season with American Ryan Burroughs as it shows their commitment to at least try to promote 'home grown' players. What will disappoint me is if Toronto don't have a youth system in 2-3 years time and still rely on buying or bringing in players from England and Aus. Although I am a fan of getting 2nd tier Aussies in at times.

Re: Toulouse : Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:00 am  

Bulls Boy 2011 wrote:

However the only negative I have about the French especially Catalan is they do not promote the French youngsters enough. Catalan have been here 11 years and we have seen Bosc, Pelissier, Mounis, Duport who are French and have been decent but I am yet to see a quality French spine and pack, they bring in too many overseas when they should be using the vast player pool they have. Escare is quality and for me Catalan should have kept hold and built a team around him. They should have first refusal of French players.

They may have a large player pool, but is it of sufficient quality?

The problem with Catalans at the moment is that they pay their French lads peanuts, which allows them to spend big on their overseas an English contingent, and which is why we're seeing a lot of French players leave for UK clubs (which actually could be a good thing for RL).

Pelissier, Larroyer, Springer, Escare, Navarette, Fages, Jullien, Barthau are all UK based now.

Add to that Casty, Bousquet, Simon, Garcia, Baitieri, Gigot(?), Yaha, Pala, Da Costa, Duport, Bosc at the Dragons. France probably have their deepest player pool at professional level since I can remember.

But what we have is one club able to devote the required resources into producing these players, they can only do so much themselves. In England we have 11 SL clubs doing the same. Hopefully, if Toulouse continue to build over the years and also get the youth structures and French players coming through, the pool will continue to grow.

Bulls Boy 2011 wrote:

Again if Toronto prove themselves and get into SL, great. But I expect the number of Canadian and North American players to grow year on year. That is why I am extremely pleased they have started the season with American Ryan Burroughs as it shows their commitment to at least try to promote 'home grown' players. What will disappoint me is if Toronto don't have a youth system in 2-3 years time and still rely on buying or bringing in players from England and Aus. Although I am a fan of getting 2nd tier Aussies in at times.

Not just Ryan Burroughs, but they also have Joe Eichner and Jerome Veve (Americans).

Rhys Jacks, Chad Bain, Quinn Ngawati & Tom Dempsey - Canadians.

Nathan Campbell - Jamaican.

8 North Americans in their squad for their inaugural year is decent and hopefully it'll be built on, and as you say a youth system established, which I believe Perez has talked about.

Re: Toulouse : Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:16 pm  

New Zealand don't have their own fully professional league yet produce a lot of players. This is what France need to emulate, and to be fair there are a lot more French players in Super League and Championship compared to pre Catalan Dragons times.

Re: Toulouse : Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:35 pm  

DGM wrote:

They may have a large player pool, but is it of sufficient quality?

The problem with Catalans at the moment is that they pay their French lads peanuts, which allows them to spend big on their overseas an English contingent, and which is why we're seeing a lot of French players leave for UK clubs (which actually could be a good thing for RL).

Pelissier, Larroyer, Springer, Escare, Navarette, Fages, Jullien, Barthau are all UK based now.

Add to that Casty, Bousquet, Simon, Garcia, Baitieri, Gigot(?), Yaha, Pala, Da Costa, Duport, Bosc at the Dragons. France probably have their deepest player pool at professional level since I can remember.

Maybe not, Although I would like to see more French players in their team. 10 of the first 13 are imports, either English or Aus/Kiwi. If you don't include Gigot in that and put Thornley in that makes 11 imports. For me they should have the same restrictions that English clubs do. 5 imports. They have enough about them to develop French players. As you listed them. Imagine a Catalan team with all those players! I do agree though that they have their deepest player pool at this level! Which can only be good. I'd just prefer them to pay their home grown players more to stay as I feel that would benefit them more.

DGM wrote:

But what we have is one club able to devote the required resources into producing these players, they can only do so much themselves. In England we have 11 SL clubs doing the same. Hopefully, if Toulouse continue to build over the years and also get the youth structures and French players coming through, the pool will continue to grow.

Agreed! I really hope Toulouse do become sustainable and manage to develop a quality junior system so we have two top class French teams. That would benefit the sport massively. I hate to agree with JEAN CAPOUZDE? but if Avignon manage to get a decent side together and in League 1 we could very well see 3 French junior systems filtering in to the first teams which benefits the sport.

DGM wrote:

Not just Ryan Burroughs, but they also have Joe Eichner and Jerome Veve (Americans).

Rhys Jacks, Chad Bain, Quinn Ngawati & Tom Dempsey - Canadians.

Nathan Campbell - Jamaican.

8 North Americans in their squad for their inaugural year is decent and hopefully it'll be built on, and as you say a youth system established, which I believe Perez has talked about.

Yeah I know about all them haha! Played with Chad at Dudley Hill. I meant there was only Ryan Burroughs in the squad against Siddal! Which shows they are playing an American from the off which is good in my eyes!

Jacks is Aussie born though but I will let him off as he captains Canada I would like to see him play with his brother Ryley at Toronto at some point.

Hope the Canadians get a shot this year especially Chad and Quinn (who's 17). I can see Burroughs being the only one to get a decent run though as he has played at a good level before. Looking forward to seeing if they develop a youth/academy system over there! If Perez has said it I am inclined to believe it. Exciting times ahead for RL in North America. Maybe this is one place where RL can have a foothold over RU and Football

Re: Toulouse : Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:23 pm  

Bulls Boy 2011 wrote:

Maybe not, Although I would like to see more French players in their team. 10 of the first 13 are imports, either English or Aus/Kiwi. If you don't include Gigot in that and put Thornley in that makes 11 imports. For me they should have the same restrictions that English clubs do. 5 imports. They have enough about them to develop French players. As you listed them.

They do have the same restrictions as as English clubs and do develop French players.

Re: Toulouse : Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:44 pm  

How have they managed to get 8 foreign players:

Krisnan Inu
Brayden Wilieme
Luke Walsh
Sam Moa
Paul Aiton
Louis Anderson
Justin Horo
Greg Bird

Plus 4 Englishmen:

Jodie Broughton
Richie Myler
Luke Burgess
Ian Thornley

I feel like I am missing something here and genuinely would like to be told what haha!

What I mean is like they should have a 5 quota spot and that's it. They have 8 plus another 4 'foreigners'. I understand that they do develop French players and as someone mentioned before they can't do it along. I would like Toulouse to be able to step up to that mark and so far they are doing okay in terms of French in their squad out of numbers 1-13 they only have 4 'foreigners' (Kheirallah, Minga, Ford, Curran) rest are French.

What I do admire at the moment is both French sides have French coaches (Frayssinous and Houles) and they each have a French assistant (Guisset and Couturier) so long may this continue too!

Re: Toulouse : Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:55 pm  

Bulls Boy 2011 wrote:

How have they managed to get 8 foreign players:

Krisnan Inu
Brayden Wilieme
Luke Walsh
Sam Moa
Paul Aiton
Louis Anderson
Justin Horo
Greg Bird

Plus 4 Englishmen:

Jodie Broughton
Richie Myler
Luke Burgess
Ian Thornley

I feel like I am missing something here and genuinely would like to be told what haha!

What I mean is like they should have a 5 quota spot and that's it. They have 8 plus another 4 'foreigners'. I understand that they do develop French players and as someone mentioned before they can't do it along. I would like Toulouse to be able to step up to that mark and so far they are doing okay in terms of French in their squad out of numbers 1-13 they only have 4 'foreigners' (Kheirallah, Minga, Ford, Curran) rest are French.

What I do admire at the moment is both French sides have French coaches (Frayssinous and Houles) and they each have a French assistant (Guisset and Couturier) so long may this continue too!

Not sure about the Aussies and Kiwis and any quota exemptions individual players may have (does Anderson qualify for exemption through long term residency?) but since the change was made to fed-trained and non-fed trained a few years back the English quartet will count as fed-trained (so unrestricted). The same will apply to the likes of Escare, Pelissier, Fages et al who are with English clubs within their squads. The eight antipodeans will fit into the permitted groups of non-fed and overseas quota players (5) plus the extra group of players permitted within a squad who are non-fed trained but do not count on the overseas quota.