Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:14 am  

Hopie wrote:

England Men's World Cup squad:

Sam Tomkins (Catalans Dragons) - Captain
Andy Ackers (Salford Red Devils)
Joe Batchelor (St Helens)
John Bateman (Wigan Warriors)
Tom Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs)
Mike Cooper (Wigan Warriors)
Herbie Farnworth (Brisbane Broncos)
Ryan Hall (Hull KR)
Chris Hill (Huddersfield Giants)
Morgan Knowles (St Helens)
Matty Lees (St Helens)
Tommy Makinson (St Helens)
Michael McIlorum (Catalans Dragons)
Mike McMeeken (Catalans Dragons)
Mikolaj Oledzki (Leeds Rhinos)
Kai Pearce-Paul (Wigan Warriors)
Victor Radley (Sydney Roosters)
Marc Sneyd (Salford Red Devils)
Luke Thompson (Canterbury Bulldogs)
Kallum Watkins (Salford Red Devils)
Jack Welsby (St Helens)
Elliott Whitehead (Canberra Raiders)
George Williams (Warrington Wolves)
Dom Young (Newcastle Knights)

How many of these players would you say are in there prime?

Sam - past his prime which was 10-12 years ago

Akers - prime but untested

Batchellor - prime but untested

Bateman - not in form he was 3-4 years ago

Burgess - not in form he was 4-5 years ago

Cooper - past his prime in his NRL/peak wire days

Herbie - probs a few years away from his prime

Hall - 7+ years past his prime

Hill - still a great player but 5+ years past his prime

Knowles - in his prime

Lees - in his prime

Makinson - in his prime

McIlorum - 5+ years past his prime

McMeeken - in his prime

Oledzki - maybe a few years off his prime

KPP - still developing, years off his prime

Radley - prime

Sneyd - not seen enough, untested at this level

Thompson - prime

Watkins - playing well but a few years later his explosive best at Leeds

Welsby - playing great but untested and will probably been even better at the next World Cup

Whitehead - prime

Williams - prime but out of form

Young - will be in his prime at the next World Cup

Farrell, Walmsley, Newman, Lomax, Percival are big misses to the squad.

Gone are the days off stalwarts like Farrell, Peacock, Morley, Ellis, O’Loughlin, Burgess, Sculthrope

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:10 pm  

We have to face up to the fact that we overestimate the quality of a lot of players, who perform in super league but look out of their depth against Austrailia.

In the past though, we've had a least a few 'top-quality' players (Sculthorpe, peacock, etc) whereas now, even taking into account injuries I don't think there's any top top quality. It's a very meh squad.

Put it into perspective though, we're basically relying on players from a few small northern English pit towns. It's David and Goliath.

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:37 pm  

I think over the years we have had the players to beat Australia and even win a world cup.

A lot of the time we play players out of position instead of playing out and out positional players.

Wellens on the wing? Widdop at FB. Bateman at centre. It’s just trying to shoehorn players in.

We actually have a top pack. And a back line that’s decent:

Young
Farnworth
? - Not sure who we’ll pick here.
Makinson

Lees
McIllorum
Thompson
Bateman
Whitehead
Radley

That pack will mix it with them all. Our quality in the halves will let us down this year.

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:07 am  

England set to rotate the squad in the next game, I hope there is genuine competition for places as I felt that our best 17 wasn't on the field against Samoa. It might be easy to dismiss anyone impressing against "lesser" opposition, but I hope Wane gives everyone a fair go at showing their form.
If it is just a case of resting the favourites to bring them back no matter how well someone plays it would be disappointing, although i recall it took until the semis in 2013 for the England coach to put the best team out on the field.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Wed Oct 19, 2022 12:44 pm  

Hopie wrote:

England set to rotate the squad in the next game, I hope there is genuine competition for places as I felt that our best 17 wasn't on the field against Samoa. It might be easy to dismiss anyone impressing against "lesser" opposition, but I hope Wane gives everyone a fair go at showing their form.
If it is just a case of resting the favourites to bring them back no matter how well someone plays it would be disappointing, although i recall it took until the semis in 2013 for the England coach to put the best team out on the field.

i didn't see a lot of mcmeeken at the weekend, saw a bit of whitehead but not too much of right side backrow, i dont know what the stats say.

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:11 pm  

i think its just sensible rotation of the squad for a game(s) that we should be winning

keep the squad fresh for the quarter final and pick his best 17 from there on in. The best 17 will possibly be impacted by injury / concussion protocol / suspension, so keep everyone interested and match fit, til you need them

the plus side, is that we wont have the physical battering that Tonga / PNG and Cook Islands will have all been giving each other. Group A and D should chuck up 2 interesting quarter finals looking at it

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:39 pm  

Difficult to enjoy any game with Jon Wilkin talking over it, but pretty average from England today.

Really think that in a tournament, you need to work on that 80 minute performance. Samoa didn't turn up last week, but first bit of resistance from the French and England dropped off. Switch off for ten against the better sides and you are 18 points worse off.

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:52 pm  

Ill discipline from England today. They need to improve that by the time they get to the knockout stages.

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:36 am  

Hopie wrote:

Difficult to enjoy any game with Jon Wilkin talking over it, but pretty average from England today.

Really think that in a tournament, you need to work on that 80 minute performance. Samoa didn't turn up last week, but first bit of resistance from the French and England dropped off. Switch off for ten against the better sides and you are 18 points worse off.

I think Cooper, Lees and Knowles are more "in your face" players and that was missing when France got some decent possession yesterday. Still worry about that No 9 spot though, that seems to be our weakest link so far.

Wane won't be happy with the amount of unecessary 6 agains at the wrong end of the pitch.

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:02 pm  

I'd like to see someone else at fullback next week, as I'm not impressed at all by Tomkins. Whoever plays next week should be told that they won't play in the quarters if they don't put in quality performance.