Re: Kevin Sinfield : Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:54 pm  

Sinfield's problem is that he doesnt fit peoples expectation of what a player playing a certain position should do. Rather than looking at Sinfield on his own merits, he is judged against some hypothetical check list of skills a player in a certain position should be.

Thats why we get comments like 'not big enough for a lock, not fast enough for a stand off'. Sinfield is probably the best defensive stand-off in RL, he may not be as fast as some but he is stronger than most, he may not bust too many tackles, or make that many breaks, but he has a very good offload game and makes lots of metres and takes lots of tackles. Forget the number on his back and look at what he contributes and you will see a very very good player.

Re: Kevin Sinfield : Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:09 pm  

domthebull wrote:

dont judge a man by his weekly consistency judge him by his challenge cup winners medals and lance todd trophies........

Wait a minute... you know Sinfield has won a Lance Todd right Bully?

Re: Kevin Sinfield : Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:15 pm  

Tony Soprano wrote:

You don't achieve what Sinfield has by being average

Especially not by being "very" average

You don't need to be flashy to be brilliant. Leeds are a poorer side without him with the way he can control the game and steady the ship. Lucky he doesn't miss many games, then!

Re: Kevin Sinfield : Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:03 pm  

Smokey TA i disagree and not just winding up now - I have watched and a lot of his tackles he is not the main man he makes a lot of third man in tackle (which still need making do not get me wrong) but that is not the sign of a strong defensive 6. He rarely takes on the line and thus his limited clean breaks or busts - as a 6 in the junior league he used to do this often, a stand off does not need to be quick a fair few have made breaks with men in support who are faster I remember people like craigie or bradley not graced with pace but provided a few breaks and tries were conceded off this. If you look at the stats (not the only reason to judge a player i know) for a player regarded as so creative (somone who does not take many hit ups or make many 1:1 tackles for a forward should be creative) he is not somone who fits in a box. Thing is when you look at the side he has played loose forward because mcguire ticks more boxes at six than he does and burrow was predominantly a 7 until recently. He is a great leader and does organise things but is that not what forshaw was doing as water carrier?
the reason he struggles at international level is he is not good enough as an out an out 6 or 13 and against australia you cant carry players because they are good at goal kicking.

Re: Kevin Sinfield : Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:09 pm  

One thing is that Sinfield has really never had a decent spell out through injury during his career. If he were to miss say at least 8-10 games from injury then i think you would see the massive difference of not having him around. Because he's always been there i don't think people really know what he gives until the time comes when it's gone.

Re: Kevin Sinfield : Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:20 pm  

he did miss nearly 7 weeks with a serious haematoma the other year.

I get the point but I think if you took away his goalkicking the impression of him as a player would be less. Not suggesting he is only a goalkicker in the slightest but its like wingers with tries it can be deceptive in some peoples eyes. I think he is a good leader and a good player in his own right but a rugby league legend or man of steel contender no.

Re: Kevin Sinfield : Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:23 pm  

the sign of a good team captain in any team sport is that he makes players around him play well.
he is inspirational. a top, top player.

Re: Kevin Sinfield : Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:54 pm  

domthebull wrote:

Smokey TA i disagree and not just winding up now - I have watched and a lot of his tackles he is not the main man he makes a lot of third man in tackle (which still need making do not get me wrong) but that is not the sign of a strong defensive 6. He rarely takes on the line and thus his limited clean breaks or busts - as a 6 in the junior league he used to do this often, a stand off does not need to be quick a fair few have made breaks with men in support who are faster I remember people like craigie or bradley not graced with pace but provided a few breaks and tries were conceded off this. If you look at the stats (not the only reason to judge a player i know) for a player regarded as so creative (somone who does not take many hit ups or make many 1:1 tackles for a forward should be creative) he is not somone who fits in a box. Thing is when you look at the side he has played loose forward because mcguire ticks more boxes at six than he does and burrow was predominantly a 7 until recently. He is a great leader and does organise things but is that not what forshaw was doing as water carrier?
the reason he struggles at international level is he is not good enough as an out an out 6 or 13 and against australia you cant carry players because they are good at goal kicking.

Whole heartedly agree with every word and also the reason why I don't want him as England captain. There are better 13's and better 6's than what Sinfield is in either position.

Re: Kevin Sinfield : Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:29 pm  

domthebull wrote:

Smokey TA i disagree and not just winding up now - I have watched and a lot of his tackles he is not the main man he makes a lot of third man in tackle (which still need making do not get me wrong) but that is not the sign of a strong defensive 6. He rarely takes on the line and thus his limited clean breaks or busts - as a 6 in the junior league he used to do this often, a stand off does not need to be quick a fair few have made breaks with men in support who are faster I remember people like craigie or bradley not graced with pace but provided a few breaks and tries were conceded off this. If you look at the stats (not the only reason to judge a player i know) for a player regarded as so creative (somone who does not take many hit ups or make many 1:1 tackles for a forward should be creative) he is not somone who fits in a box. Thing is when you look at the side he has played loose forward because mcguire ticks more boxes at six than he does and burrow was predominantly a 7 until recently. He is a great leader and does organise things but is that not what forshaw was doing as water carrier?
the reason he struggles at international level is he is not good enough as an out an out 6 or 13 and against australia you cant carry players because they are good at goal kicking.

Sinfield took the 4th most hit ups of anyone in SL, he takes on the line very often. As an example of his defensive capabilities Sinfield has made 522 tackles, missing 86. For comparison Rangi Chase made 112 and missed 10, Finch 354 missing 56, Briers 196 missing 26, Dureau 279 missing 21. Sinfield isnt a 6 or a 13, he isnt a check list of skills. This isnt fantasy football, we arent just filling spots. Sinfield may not tick all the boxes for an S-O, Mcguire may tick more of them, but its a team game, and the winning team is the one which has the best mix of skills, not the one with the most players ticking the most boxes in the most positions.

Leeds certainly havent struggled because Sinfield doesnt tick these boxes.

Re: Kevin Sinfield : Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:41 am  

bramleyrhino wrote:

And listed below are the players who have delivered for England / GB in the SL era:









That is all

you have missed



and