: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:44 pm  

Wheres My Shirt wrote:

Equally the referee could ask the question "is there any physical reason why I can't give the try?".

Because he's not 100% certain.

Re: Things I don't agree with... : Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:54 pm  

roversmad wrote:

You are Mike "momentum rule" Stephenson and I claim my £5

he can't be.... because he's right.
Stevo has no idea what momentum is...

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:02 pm  

RL13 wrote:

Benefit of the doubt should always go to the defending team. To score a try, a referee must be 100% certain that it is one. Benefit of the doubt implies he's not 100% certain, therefore the attacking team didn't warrant enough merit for the try to be awarded.

What decision should he give when he hasn't seen any reason to disallow the try but isn't 100% a try was scored?

Re: Things I don't agree with... : Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:06 pm  

roversmad wrote:

can you tell us another way it could possibly move towards the oppositions goal line then

It could bounce forward towards the opposition line.
It could be blown forward towards the opposition line by the wind.

These (along with momentum) are explicitly mentioned in the laws if the game as situations in which the ball can move towards the opposition goal line and not be a forward pass.

Re: Things I don't agree with... : Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:06 pm  

roversmad wrote:

You are Mike "momentum rule" Stephenson and I claim my £5

At what point did I mention momentum? The fact the ball has mass is pretty irrelevant.

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:11 pm  

RL13 wrote:

Because he's not 100% certain.

My question stands - "because he's not 100% certain" is not a physical reason. A physical reason in this case being an act or suspicion of an act.

...ie new question the referee could well ask the video ref "is there is act which took place, or do you suspect of any act that took place that could have stopped the the try being scored".

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:49 pm  

SBR wrote:

What decision should he give when he hasn't seen any reason to disallow the try but isn't 100% a try was scored?

Depends on the circumstance. He could allow the tackle count to continue, or award the defending team a 20-metre restart.

Wheres My Shirt wrote:

My question stands - "because he's not 100% certain" is not a physical reason. A physical reason in this case being an act or suspicion of an act.

...ie new question the referee could well ask the video ref "is there is act which took place, or do you suspect of any act that took place that could have stopped the the try being scored".

Doubt implies that one is not sure about what occured. I think the burden of proof should be on the attacking team to score, and not whether they 'might' have scored. Of course, when there are no physical reasons to disallow a try, then 'doubt' becomes less of a factor in lieu of certainty? It's all semantics, i suppose, but i don't think 'doubt' should be apart of a referee's vocabulary.

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:58 pm  

RL13 wrote:

Depends on the circumstance. He could allow the tackle count to continue, or award the defending team a 20-metre restart.

He should just choose a random option? He hasn't seen any reason to give a 20-metre restart, or to deny the try and allow the tackle count to continue.

Re: Things I don't agree with... : Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:11 pm  

Wheres My Shirt wrote:

At what point did I mention momentum? The fact the ball has mass is pretty irrelevant.

you didn't explicity say momentum however your explanation of a forward pass was on the momentum rules. as players are traveling. when i stated the ball could be passed in any manner and directions as it is not in a direction closer to the opposing goal line you said i was completely wrong. and went on to give the senario of a player traveling at 15mph. however in my statement i don't recall actually mentioning the players moving so i stand by my definition

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:34 pm  

SBR wrote:

He should just choose a random option? He hasn't seen any reason to give a 20-metre restart, or to deny the try and allow the tackle count to continue.

Not all. It depends on the circumstance in regards to why he's not certain it's a try. That could be dependent on numerous factors such as being held-up, knock-on, or short of the line, etc...

Conversely, I don't think a try should be awarded because it will lead to a dead-end in regards to how the game should be restarted.