: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:49 pm  

Damo-Leeds wrote:

I think you’ll get in the play offs but struggle in them. Not struggle to get to them!

Hows the singwing going ?

Re: Franchise effects : Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:44 pm  

Salty wrote:

AND for the other clubs.
Widnes won't have to overspend and go bust. They can build gradually over the next two years and will be bankers for a return to Superleague. If Halifax, Leigh, Whitehaven, Toulouse etc. have a 3 year plan, which I'm sure they must, then the bids in 2011 will be interesting.

Really? I'm not sure things have changed much on that front at all.

Widnes, or any other club(before this becomes an anti Widnes bitch fest) could 'build gradually' and do everything the RFL want to see but if they don't achieve the required level of onfield success they won't even be allowed to apply.

Other than having 2 years instead of 1 in which to overspend what disincentive do clubs now have that they didn't before?

It would probably also help if they knew exactly what they were supposed to be building slowly towards. We know exactly how renewal applications will be assessed but not those from non SL clubs.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:50 am  

Franchising is working in as much as the circumstances that franchising created are what was expected, so far.

While the two promoted clubs were still behind the field this time, they were not hamstrung as under the previous p & r system.

Cas not being relegated are doing much better in their second season, this I think was common under the old system too. If you managed to stay up, you were then on a level playing field with the rest of SL and could therefore be much more competitive.

The importance of being in SL at the time of franchising is now obvious and many suspected so before franchises were awarded. Perhaps this contributed to the poop or bust approach that the previous Widnes board took. And maybe, given the apparent professionalism of the new Widnes board it was a blessing in disguise, but who can say how Widnes would have done if the gamble had paid off and they were now in SL with a secure (for three years at least) future?

It is far too early to speculate on the success or otherwise of franchising the implications are many and wide ranging and it will take years for the full effects to be seen.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:04 pm  

Barnacle Bill wrote:

Franchising is working in as much as the circumstances that franchising created are what was expected, so far.

While the two promoted clubs were still behind the field this time, they were not hamstrung as under the previous p & r system.

Cas not being relegated are doing much better in their second season, this I think was common under the old system too. If you managed to stay up, you were then on a level playing field with the rest of SL and could therefore be much more competitive.

The importance of being in SL at the time of franchising is now obvious and many suspected so before franchises were awarded. Perhaps this contributed to the poop or bust approach that the previous Widnes board took. And maybe, given the apparent professionalism of the new Widnes board it was a blessing in disguise, but who can say how Widnes would have done if the gamble had paid off and they were now in SL with a secure (for three years at least) future?

It is far too early to speculate on the success or otherwise of franchising the implications are many and wide ranging and it will take years for the full effects to be seen.

I agree that long term effects are not known but the previous system definitely didn't work and I can see the green shoots of franchise in a few areas, with Castleford, who would have been relegated, actually blossoming.

Re: Franchise effects : Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:41 pm  

Salty wrote:

It's great to see Cas playing so well. Just think if it wasn't for the franchise system, their team would have been disbanded and they would be starting all over again.
Salford are struggling and would normally be dreading relegation and considering throwing money at a desperate cause. They can build gradually (along with Celtic) and do a Cas.
In the meantime teams like Widnes can build up the club and get back where they belong in 2 and a half years time. Well done the Rugby League.

I agree but afew years ago we had 4 teams who could win it each year, now its only two.

Some proof that its holding back some teams.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:48 pm  

As annoyed as I was that we missed out, it seems that for Super League teams that the system is working. And without sounding like Eddie, the season has started brilliantly IMO. Its good to see teams like Cas and Wakey doing so well, and Celtic have done a decent job so far as well.

With Celtic they just need to keep trying to increase their own fans and keep up the very decent attendances they have got so far. On the filed they have been far more competitive too. This aint fishing buuuut, my only worry is that this season they will have gates boosted a lot by fans wanting to go to a new place for the first time. Maybe it will continue, I dunno.

So if your in the gang it works, for us lot... we will see.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:28 pm  

Salty wrote:

I agree that long term effects are not known but the previous system definitely didn't work and I can see the green shoots of franchise in a few areas, with Castleford, who would have been relegated, actually blossoming.

The previous system was not allowed to work, and franchising is working in as much as Castleford weren't relegated and therefore are seeing the improvements which I believe were normal even under the old system for teams which managed to stay up in their promotion year.

It should come as no surprise that Castleford, who would have been relegated under the old system, are doing much better than they would have if they had been relegated.

The long term effects upon SL and the leagues below are not yet known and will not be for some years to come.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:01 pm  

changing tack slightly and it will be interesting to see how coaches fare now the threat of relegation is removed. already we have seen lowes shifted sideways and mc rae is under threat too as is macca at the bulls. i think not much will change here as fans want to see their teams winning and more importantly putting in a good shift, even in defeat. even without the fear of going down, the fan factor is probably the deciding thing here.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:18 pm  

the artist wrote:

changing tack slightly and it will be interesting to see how coaches fare now the threat of relegation is removed. already we have seen lowes shifted sideways and mc rae is under threat too as is macca at the bulls. i think not much will change here as fans want to see their teams winning and more importantly putting in a good shift, even in defeat. even without the fear of going down, the fan factor is probably the deciding thing here.

Which is exactly what we all predicted

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:24 pm  

odemwingie wrote:

I agree but afew years ago we had 4 teams who could win it each year, now its only two.

Some proof that its holding back some teams.

But fortunately not as much as in the pre-Super League days, eh?

Griffdog wrote:

As annoyed as I was that we missed out, it seems that for Super League teams that the system is working. And without sounding like Eddie, the season has started brilliantly IMO. Its good to see teams like Cas and Wakey doing so well, and Celtic have done a decent job so far as well.

With Celtic they just need to keep trying to increase their own fans and keep up the very decent attendances they have got so far. On the filed they have been far more competitive too. This aint fishing buuuut, my only worry is that this season they will have gates boosted a lot by fans wanting to go to a new place for the first time. Maybe it will continue, I dunno.

So if your in the gang it works, for us lot... we will see.

It was good to see Widnes giving young players a chance tonight and hopefully that will continue under Paul Cullen. The situation should also work for you (and other Championship teams) too – particularly on the issue of bringing young players through, because you're not in the position of having to throw everything at a last-ditch effort to win, in essence, one match – which was, in many ways, what happened two years ago to the Vikings. The whole culture created by relegation from Super League was mitigating against that – in recent years, only KR have actually managed to come up and stay up in their first season. That cannot be good for the development of the sport.

Now you have to time to develop – and then, if you get a franchise, you'll have further breathing space in which to develop.