Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:11 pm  

TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:

How is the difference in quality irrelevant? The more evenly matched the teams are, the less difference there will be between 1st and 5th, obviously. In a more evenly matched league, like the NRL, you would expect the win ratios of the top teams to be lower in comparison to SL.

How you are so committed to such an obviously nonsensical, circular, logical fallacy of an argument I dont know.

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:13 pm  

RL13 wrote:

Not to be an arrse or anything, but 80 minutes with two evenly match sides - it can go either way. The referee is hugely influential in a RL match, and momentum is not something that can self-accounted for half the time. You either get it or you don't. Leeds only beat Wigan by 1pt via late penalty and were outscored by 2 tries to 1. Who knows it all might have been a different story if Ryan Hall had been penalised for holding down in the 79th minute.

Whether the system is right or wrong. You can't always justify it by saying the "champion teams always find a way to win. no matter what" - especially in a condensed space of time, with variables occurring outside of either team's hands.

Yes you can, Had Ryan Hall given away a penalty, we may have lost, we may have been disappointed and felt a little hard done by, but there was an entire game we could have won there. The fact Wigan got the rub of the green wouldnt mean we were guaranteed to lose, as we proved, you can win in spite of referees decisions.

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:14 pm  

MjM wrote:

:D

No matter how much these Pie Eaters complain, the problem isn't Leeds or having a play off system. The "problem" is that substandard, bottle-less teams can get to the top of the league but fail in the play offs. Wiganers feel this is a fault of the play offs themselves. I believe it is a fault of the teams who can go so far but do not have the true qualities that champions need to display. When the chips were down, when they encountered a tiny bit of adversity, they failed to win in the biggest games of the season. By definition, they were unworthy of being champions.

On any given day one team can beat another. Wigan Athletic beat Manchester United towards the end of last season and more or less cost United the title. I suppose United 'bottled it' and Wigan Athletic are big game players???????

Do you think Wigan Athletic should have been Champions last season??

Its a pretty poor post that mate, 'Clutching at straws' others may say

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:19 pm  

Dougy wrote:

On any given day one team can beat another. Wigan Athletic beat Manchester United towards the end of last season and more or less cost United the title. I suppose United 'bottled it' and Wigan Athletic are big game players???????

Do you think Wigan Athletic should have been Champions last season??

Its a pretty poor post that mate, 'Clutching at straws' others may say

That is quite the leap of logic.

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:23 pm  

Dougy wrote:

On any given day one team can beat another. Wigan Athletic beat Manchester United towards the end of last season and more or less cost United the title. I suppose United 'bottled it' and Wigan Athletic are big game players???????

Do you think Wigan Athletic should have been Champions last season??

Its a pretty poor post that mate, 'Clutching at straws' others may say

If the pressure so got to Man Utd that they lost to Wigan Athletic in the biggest game of the season then, yes, they would not be showing the required champion qualities (Wigan Athletic would likely not be in the position to be in the biggest game so your analogy falls down of course).

It's not hard to understand but you Pie Munchers appear to be particularly cut up about it this year for some reason. In an adversarial sport like Rugby League it makes complete sense for the champions to be decided in a match up on the biggest, most tense, most intense, day of the season. Applying a football mindset to a completely different sport is where I fear you are going wrong.

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:24 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Yes you can, Had Ryan Hall given away a penalty, we may have lost, we may have been disappointed and felt a little hard done by, but there was an entire game we could have won there. The fact Wigan got the rub of the green wouldnt mean we were guaranteed to lose, as we proved, you can win in spite of referees decisions.

You did, and it was a great game (and being a Saints fan I'm glad you won ) But my point is, play off games can be easily won or lost and all this hyperbole about 'champion teams being champions when it matters' is the sort of stuff you find in Greek myth, not in the real world.

Even the all-conquering never say die prowess of the Saints team have the video ref (Micheal Wither's knock on) and the ref (Chris Joynt falling over) to thank for their titles. Yet we decide entire league seasons on these games.

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:28 pm  

MjM wrote:

If the pressure so got to Man Utd that they lost to Wigan Athletic in the biggest game of the season then, yes, they would not be showing the required champion qualities (Wigan Athletic would likely not be in the position to be in the biggest game so your analogy falls down of course).

It's not hard to understand but you Pie Munchers appear to be particularly cut up about it this year for some reason. In an adversarial sport like Rugby League it makes complete sense for the champions to be decided in a match up on the biggest, most tense, most intense, day of the season. Applying a football mindset to a completely different sport is where I fear you are going wrong.

Ok then Barcelona were beaten by Chelsea in last years Champions League semi final.

Consider the majority of the Barcelona players have won the World Cup(the biggest sporting final on Earth), 3 Champions League titles and played in countless El Classico's(the biggest match-up of the biggest sport in the world)

Do you think Barcelona bottled it?

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:33 pm  

RL13 wrote:

You did, and it was a great game (and being a Saints fan I'm glad you won ) But my point is, play off games can be easily won or lost and all this hyperbole about 'champion teams being champions when it matters' is the sort of stuff you find in Greek myth, not in the real world.

Even the all-conquering never say die prowess of the Saints team have the video ref (Micheal Wither's knock on) and the ref (Chris Joynt falling over) to thank for their titles. Yet we decide entire league seasons on these games.

You do 'find a way' to win. Whilst Chris Joynt and Mick Withers knock on became 'the controversy' in the game, there were another 79mins and 59seconds of those games.

Some times you dont find a way to win, in those games you lose. Rarely is that the wrong result.

Wigan could have won, they could have beaten us, had they done so, i would have thought we were unfortunate but we didnt take the victory, we didnt go out there and get it. It wasnt a great performance, we could have done better. Had we lost, it would have been because our passes didnt stick, because we did make some mistakes, there were missed tackles and dropped balls, they would have been responsible for the loss, not the last minute penalty.

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:34 pm  

Dougy wrote:

Ok then Barcelona were beaten by Chelsea in last years Champions League semi final.

Consider the majority of the Barcelona players have won the World Cup(the biggest sporting final on Earth), 3 Champions League titles and played in countless El Classico's(the biggest match-up of the biggest sport in the world)

Do you think Barcelona bottled it?

Barcelona clearly bottled it.

Biggest two games of the year and the missed two open goals and Messi missed a penalty, they caused themselves to be chasing a game they should have won and played right in to Chelsea's hands.

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:35 pm  

RL13 wrote:

You did, and it was a great game (and being a Saints fan I'm glad you won ) But my point is, play off games can be easily won or lost and all this hyperbole about 'champion teams being champions when it matters' is the sort of stuff you find in Greek myth, not in the real world.

Even the all-conquering never say die prowess of the Saints team have the video ref (Micheal Wither's knock on) and the ref (Chris Joynt falling over) to thank for their titles. Yet we decide entire league seasons on these games.

Must agree. One off games are more prone to being decided by a ref of by players being injured. The FA Cup and Challenge Cup have their histories built on one-off games because the underdog have much more chance of victory than over the course of 9 months when you have to be 'at it' every week, be it sunny, raining, snowing, windy, home or away. If you finish top after all that you deserve to be Champions - everyone agrees with that, unless you're a Leeds fan.

Over the course of a season it does tend to even out, over 80 minutes it is very unlikely.