Re: Twelfth SL club for 2021 : Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:22 am  

M@islebugs wrote:

Wakey should go for the reasons stated. Leigh and Bradford didn't finish bottom whereas Wakey did so on field results are entirely arbitrary in deciding and always have been. Considering the decline of the selling power of the game to broadcasters as has been suggested, the criteria for being in the elite league ought to consider what clubs bring to the comp apart from simply staying in it.

I don't think that's the case.

The exceptionally high deal last time was to see off BT Sport. The new deal will be lower this time as BT sport aren't interested but it will still be a good deal.

When Lenegan spoke of it he said the deal would be split differently. If it isn't any more than £150M then the Championships won't be getting anything.

Re: Twelfth SL club for 2021 : Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:00 am  

Donnyman wrote:

I don't think that's the case.

The exceptionally high deal last time was to see off BT Sport. The new deal will be lower this time as BT sport aren't interested but it will still be a good deal.

When Lenegan spoke of it he said the deal would be split differently. If it isn't any more than £150M then the Championships won't be getting anything.

It wasn't EXCEPTIONALLY HIGH.

Koukash made that plain immediately.Lenagan stated his uncertainty after the deal was completed.

Lenagan got Elstone employed,on a deal,that he got a better broadcast deal.

That now seems certain to fail.

Re: Twelfth SL club for 2021 : Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:15 am  

snowie wrote:

It really is haunting you the fact we played and beat you to keep you in the championship, you had the chance but they blew it, since then it's got worse for you and your very lucky to even have a club.

Don't forget they was the rules at the time not us setting them but the RFL had they played to the rules of straight promotion and relegation yes we would of been down but it would of be Leigh coming up and Bradford would of missed again

You need to get over the loss

Your missing the point. Rather than the geographical area, the name of the motorway, the tiny percentage of the northern populace that actually watches RL what ought to be considered is that clubs like yours present the image of a time when the north really was flat cap wearing, parochial, mining nostalgic and possibly even xenophobic. One of the reasons we've had the 'expansion' debate we've had and the attendant debacles is the desperation to rid the game of this image and attract a broader audience. My point is that Wakefield are a massive hindrance in this mission and by not facing up to the real issue we continue to stumble into absurd transatlantic forays. Huddersfield, possibly slightly less so and all credit to Ken Davy, but still box office dog doo.

Re: Twelfth SL club for 2021 : Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:19 am  

little wayne69 wrote:

This is a bigger pile of crap than your last post
Bradford couldn't run a raffle without somebody nicking the proceeds and don't have a ground of their own so not sure what the obvious reasons are.
London were relegated simply because they weren't good enough, but by your reckoning surely Toulouse should be in front of them expansion wise.
Leigh tried and failed twice, but by your obscure criteria should be at the top of the pile but replacing who exactly?
York is a town that thinks it's a city, only thing going for them is a decent ground, and because Newcastle have a wealthy owner does that qualify them to jump up two divisions.
As for Fev being too Wakey-esque seems a bit of bitterness in there somewhere.

Leigh and London were both considerably better than you were when you shipped a thousand points and won twice (?) in a whole league season. All irrelevant. The game is borderline unmarketable and is thrashing around all over the northern hemisphere without addressing the product they have. Wakefield Trinity are depressing - a two word synonym for everything rugby league struggles against when selling the game. A northern cliché in a rugby shirt.

Re: Twelfth SL club for 2021 : Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:22 am  

M@islebugs wrote:

I agree on the whole but it depends on how you define value. The issue per se isn't the length or population along the M62 corridor. It's long and there's millions of people, most of whom find the game drab because there are clubs who survive in SL who haven't won anything since the 50s, don't produce top class players and have few fans despite being in relatively large towns. They bring no value and contribute to the competition having little in the way of actual competition or excitement.

Agreed on the first part, 'value' is not just money, it it the intrinsic 'value' that the clubs that haven't won anything, still bring to the game. As an example Wakefield: they have won anything, but do produce 'some' decent young players (Johnstone), but also they do some excellent work in Wakefield and beyond with their Foundation. They even stretch as far as Bassetlaw (Worksop) with their support of a very good junior club with there endeavours. That work should be applauded. The value they bring to the game through that effort is incalculable.

However, they could do that as a part time club in the Championship and allow other clubs that bring more to the game, in terms of attendances, production of more top level players and of course finances, to improve SL. I am not picking on Wakefield, only using them as an example.

None of this is perfect, but we must assess where the game is going over the next five years, and we must do that NOW.

Re: Twelfth SL club for 2021 : Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:31 am  

M@islebugs wrote:

Your missing the point. Rather than the geographical area, the name of the motorway, the tiny percentage of the northern populace that actually watches RL what ought to be considered is that clubs like yours present the image of a time when the north really was flat cap wearing, parochial, mining nostalgic and possibly even xenophobic. One of the reasons we've had the 'expansion' debate we've had and the attendant debacles is the desperation to rid the game of this image and attract a broader audience. My point is that Wakefield are a massive hindrance in this mission and by not facing up to the real issue we continue to stumble into absurd transatlantic forays. Huddersfield, possibly slightly less so and all credit to Ken Davy, but still box office dog doo.

I know that some like to see shiny plastic seats but, we should be selling the product and not the "wrapper".
For example, the Cas v Saints play off game a few years ago was one of the most dramatic and compelling games of recent years.
NOBODY was looking at the lack of seating or the quality of the facilities.

RL scored a HUGE own goal by setting it's mythical 10,000 attendance figure, something which only 4/5 clubs can achieve.
It's absolutely right to try and push up standards on/off the field but, watching a decent game in a poor ground, beats watching a poor game in a half (or worse) empty ground all day long.

Strangely, Toronto's ground with it's psychedelic multisport pitch markings, was as bad as it gets but, "we" were pretty keen to get them into the comp.

It's utter nonsense to suggest that clubs like Trinity hold back the TV deal.
Do you really think that if they were playing out of a brand new 12,000 seater stadium, there would be, even one more penny on the TV deal

Of course everything looks better when the games are played to "sell out" crowds, although this seems very unlikely in the foreseeable future, for any club and there is no doubt that Trinity and others, need to make progress with their ground, least of all to open up additional revenue streams for themselves but, we still get back to the game of RL and using the Cas / Huddersfield analogy again, the game looks and sounds better from The Jungle than it ever has at Huddersfield but, you surely know this but, couldn't help having a pop at Trinity , again. It's like you think that they stole something which was yours ??

Re: Twelfth SL club for 2021 : Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:35 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I know that some like to see shiny plastic seats but, we should be selling the product and not the "wrapper".
For example, the Cas v Saints play off game a few years ago was one of the most dramatic and compelling games of recent years.
NOBODY was looking at the lack of seating or the quality of the facilities.

RL scored a HUGE own goal by setting it's mythical 10,000 attendance figure, something which only 4/5 clubs can achieve.
It's absolutely right to try and push up standards on/off the field but, watching a decent game in a poor ground, beats watching a poor game in a half (or worse) empty ground all day long.

Strangely, Toronto's ground with it's psychedelic multisport pitch markings, was as bad as it gets but, "we" were pretty keen to get them into the comp.

It's utter nonsense to suggest that clubs like Trinity hold back the TV deal.
Do you really think that if they were playing out of a brand new 12,000 seater stadium, there would be, even one more penny on the TV deal

Of course everything looks better when the games are played to "sell out" crowds, although this seems very unlikely in the foreseeable future, for any club and there is no doubt that Trinity and others, need to make progress with their ground, least of all to open up additional revenue streams for themselves but, we still get back to the game of RL and using the Cas / Huddersfield analogy again, the game looks and sounds better from The Jungle than it ever has at Huddersfield but, you surely know this but, couldn't help having a pop at Trinity , again. It's like you think that they stole something which was yours ??

But that’s where you get it wrong. People do look at the facilities. If my missus went to a 1900s ground with run down toilets she wouldn’t go back. Multiply that and your crowds drop as kids don’t go cause mummy doesn’t go. Simplistic I accept but it’s fact.

Re: Twelfth SL club for 2021 : Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:42 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I know that some like to see shiny plastic seats but, we should be selling the product and not the "wrapper".
For example, the Cas v Saints play off game a few years ago was one of the most dramatic and compelling games of recent years.
NOBODY was looking at the lack of seating or the quality of the facilities.

RL scored a HUGE own goal by setting it's mythical 10,000 attendance figure, something which only 4/5 clubs can achieve.
It's absolutely right to try and push up standards on/off the field but, watching a decent game in a poor ground, beats watching a poor game in a half (or worse) empty ground all day long.

Strangely, Toronto's ground with it's psychedelic multisport pitch markings, was as bad as it gets but, "we" were pretty keen to get them into the comp.

It's utter nonsense to suggest that clubs like Trinity hold back the TV deal.
Do you really think that if they were playing out of a brand new 12,000 seater stadium, there would be, even one more penny on the TV deal

Of course everything looks better when the games are played to "sell out" crowds, although this seems very unlikely in the foreseeable future, for any club and there is no doubt that Trinity and others, need to make progress with their ground, least of all to open up additional revenue streams for themselves but, we still get back to the game of RL and using the Cas / Huddersfield analogy again, the game looks and sounds better from The Jungle than it ever has at Huddersfield but, you surely know this but, couldn't help having a pop at Trinity , again. It's like you think that they stole something which was yours ??

Yes. If Wakey were playing to 7/8k and had a team capable of making the top 4 then the game would be incrementally more exciting and therefore more marketable. The point which you have inadvertently stumbled across and the hopelessness of your post makes clear is that is never going to happen. why? Because in close to 60 years it hasn't.

Re: Twelfth SL club for 2021 : Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:44 am  

Ornery Optimist wrote:

It wasn't EXCEPTIONALLY HIGH.

.

Martyn Sadler: £200 Million is an awful lot of money, so when the RFLagreed a five year contract with BskyB for that amount, and persuaded the Superleague clubs to give their backing to it last wednesday most of them didn't need much persuading

Koukash was funny about it I agree.but it was a big deal. Koukash was funny about all sorts, unilaterally demanding SL split fully from the RFL until he eventually left the game.

Re: Twelfth SL club for 2021 : Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:17 am  

little wayne69 wrote:

York is a town that thinks it's a city,

I must admit that this, coming from a Wakefield fan, as made me chuckle....