Re: Elite Academies : Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:05 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

What age are you advocating professional clubs should take on younger players ?To have any chance to "make it" they need to be "in the system" as early as is reasonably possible.
To reduce the numbers of elite academies, because we cant sustain all of the community clubs is the wrong approach.The problem is with numbers at the bottom of the pyramid and this is the issue which needs most attention. Where we do agree is that without youngsters coming in and without the community clubs, short of increasing the overseas quota's, there is nothing at the top,

The argument about clubs of yesteryear having more hometown players is irrelevant. The world has moved on and despite it's niche appeal, in terms of where players come from RL, just like every other sport, will draw its players from across the globe.When Fev won the cup, players simply didn't move around as the do these days but, the world has changed.

Fair enough that the game needs to put finding young players to go professional, and be in the system early, as a priority.

You miss the point about Fev, back then there were so many quality players compared to today that there was no need to ship in half a dozen or more failed Aussies/islanders per club. This isn't the world "moving on" it's our game having to take in Aussie rejects as we are so short of quality.......

Re: Elite Academies : Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:21 pm  

Donnyman wrote:

You miss the point about Fev, back then there were so many quality players compared to today that there was no need to ship in half a dozen or more failed Aussies/islanders per club. This isn't the world "moving on" it's our game having to take in Aussie rejects as we are so short of quality.......

It's actually the other way round - we are so short of quality BECAUSE we take in "Aussie rejects."

Cas is a great case in point - brought virtually no-one through in the last 5 years, yet have been stacked out with endless names from Down Under.

The RFL have moved to ensure on productive academies get central funding - directly addressing the problem you highlight - yet you think certain clubs taking central funds to line the pockets of Antipodeans is a torch worth carrying.

Further - these changes have been known about for a number of years - said teams have ages to sort their houses out and properly invest in their home-grown pathways.

Re: Elite Academies : Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:44 pm  

dboy wrote:

It's actually the other way round - we are so short of quality BECAUSE we take in "Aussie rejects."

Cas is a great case in point - brought virtually no-one through in the last 5 years, yet have been stacked out with endless names from Down Under.

Fair enough Mate, but weren't the failed Aussies brought into Cas's first team because they were actually better players than the best of the academy lads??

Or are you saying that if Cas had promoted their best academy lads to the first team squad and persevered with them giving them game time they would have matured into better players than the Australian rejects??

Re: Elite Academies : Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:56 pm  

Donnyman wrote:

Fair enough Mate, but weren't the failed Aussies brought into Cas's first team because they were actually better players than the best of the academy lads??

Or are you saying that if Cas had promoted their best academy lads to the first team squad and persevered with them giving them game time they would have matured into better players than the Australian rejects??

Cas's feeder age groups have always been there or thereabouts at the top of their competitions, so they clearly had talent - that they were not brought through the the first team suggests the latter, and points to a lack of...I don't know, "commitment", to the development systems.

Of course, it's easier for Wigan to bring George Williams through, when he's surrounded by players they had.

The RFL action now is about changing that system and culture, and ensuring clubs put 100% into producing their own players in the future.

Re: Elite Academies : Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:15 am  

dboy wrote:

Cas's feeder age groups have always been there or thereabouts at the top of their competitions, so they clearly had talent - that they were not brought through the the first team suggests the latter, and points to a lack of...I don't know, "commitment", to the development systems. The RFL action now is about changing that system and culture, and ensuring clubs put 100% into producing their own players in the future.

Thank you.

So do you feel that it is very fair and correct to deny Castleford an academy, on the grounds that they followed a policy of maximising overseas imports in the squad, as against giving first team chances/places to young players that would be the last part part of their development - but possibly at the expense of results??

I go back to 2012 when Cas played more of a home grown team under Ian Millward and consequently lost nearly all their games and lost many fans as well before Millward was pushed out when the club faced relegation. In came Powell and "ready made" overseas players were then pursued and maximised in the squad? (and maybe even quality senior English players being brought in blocking academy ladsas well?

In summary play the best team you can find of quality, established and experienced players and just run an academy to pay lip service.....

If so...... given Castlefords performances, crowds and results this certainly justified ignoring the academy?? Now that Cas are being pushed on this Powell is off to Warrington where there's the money......... No coincidence?

Re: Elite Academies : Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:56 am  

Donnyman wrote:

Thank you.

So do you feel that it is very fair and correct to deny Castleford an academy, on the grounds that they followed a policy of maximising overseas imports in the squad, as against giving first team chances/places to young players that would be the last part part of their development - but possibly at the expense of results??

I go back to 2012 when Cas played more of a home grown team under Ian Millward and consequently lost nearly all their games and lost many fans as well before Millward was pushed out when the club faced relegation. In came Powell and "ready made" overseas players were then pursued and maximised in the squad? (and maybe even quality senior English players being brought in blocking academy ladsas well?

In summary play the best team you can find of quality, established and experienced players and just run an academy to pay lip service.....

If so...... given Castlefords performances, crowds and results this certainly justified ignoring the academy?? Now that Cas are being pushed on this Powell is off to Warrington where there's the money......... No coincidence?

Academy = an institution of of higher learning and excellence.

You have quite clearly described an academy that is not fit for purpose - of course they should not be receiving ventral funding for it.

They now have the chance to get their house in order and make a better application the next time round - they can still run an academy, but won't receive central funding.

This process is not new news for the clubs - it's been known about for a few years.

For the RFL to leave 2 spots unfilled, just how bad must Bulls, HKR and Cas's applications have been? I wonder whether the resolution will be those spots now being filled, but with the clubs on a shorter contract; maybe reassessed in 2 years??

Re: Elite Academies : Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:32 am  

dboy wrote:

Academy = an institution of of higher learning and excellence.

You have quite clearly described an academy that is not fit for purpose - of course they should not be receiving ventral funding for it.

They now have the chance to get their house in order and make a better application the next time round - they can still run an academy, but won't receive central funding.

This process is not new news for the clubs - it's been known about for a few years.

For the RFL to leave 2 spots unfilled, just how bad must Bulls, HKR and Cas's applications have been? I wonder whether the resolution will be those spots now being filled, but with the clubs on a shorter contract; maybe reassessed in 2 years??

I find it amazing they didn't even come out to visit any of the clubs or speak to the people running the academies & community game first hand. They have not looked at any facilities, etc. It is purely based on a document proposal. And we will never know how bad any clubs application was as no feedback has ever been given, not even to the clubs rejected! Below is a quote from the statement from Rovers...

'At no stage before yesterday’s announcement, nor during the process, has the club received any feedback whatsoever on its application.'

Re: Elite Academies : Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:42 am  

g_balls wrote:

I find it amazing they didn't even come out to visit any of the clubs or speak to the people running the academies & community game first hand. They have not looked at any facilities, etc. It is purely based on a document proposal. And we will never know how bad any clubs application was as no feedback has ever been given, not even to the clubs rejected! Below is a quote from the statement from Rovers...

'At no stage before yesterday’s announcement, nor during the process, has the club received any feedback whatsoever on its application.'

Site visits and interviews were never part of the process. They would introduce subjectivity, instead of the objectivity of written, comparable applications.

I find it amazing that club's, who knew the application process, didn't put the required effort into making a compelling case for their inclusion.

It smacks of entitlement; a misguided assumption of their own importance.

FAIL.

Re: Elite Academies : Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:33 pm  

dboy wrote:

Site visits and interviews were never part of the process. They would introduce subjectivity, instead of the objectivity of written, comparable applications.

I find it amazing that club's, who knew the application process, didn't put the required effort into making a compelling case for their inclusion.

It smacks of entitlement; a misguided assumption of their own importance.

FAIL.

How do you know what effort anyone put in? Have you seen all the applications in full? Nothing has been released on any clubs application as to why it failed or passed or how much 'effort' has been put in.
TBF for me it's a moot point anyways, running an academy should be a requirement not an elitist entitlement.

Re: Elite Academies : Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:15 pm  

g_balls wrote:

How do you know what effort anyone put in? Have you seen all the applications in full? Nothing has been released on any clubs application as to why it failed or passed or how much 'effort' has been put in.
TBF for me it's a moot point anyways, running an academy should be a requirement not an elitist entitlement.

Spot on.

But club's have to run them properly, invest in them properly, produce players appropriately. And they need to evidence it.

The 3 club's missing out haven't done that - they suffered from their own elitist entitlement.