Re: Wakey stadium plans collapse- again. : Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:14 pm  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

Oh ffs, bother to read and understand plain English, the money for the stadium is coming from the company who WMDC gave the greenbelt land to for them to build on, they are obligated by law to build the stadium in exchange for what they were given.

Actually, if you bothered to actually read up on whats going on, you would know that the trigger point on which this agreement is based, has not even been reached yet.
They are not actually legally obliged to do anything yet!
But you crack on frothing at the mouth about bent politicians and corrupt builders, it just makes you look a silly billy.

Re: Wakey stadium plans collapse- again. : Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:07 pm  

supersuperfc wrote:

Actually, if you bothered to actually read up on whats going on, you would know that the trigger point on which this agreement is based, has not even been reached yet.
They are not actually legally obliged to do anything yet!
But you crack on frothing at the mouth about bent politicians and corrupt builders, it just makes you look a silly billy.

Honestly if you know what's going on, there's a hardcore of 4,500 Wakey fans would like you to let us know what is going on, your right on one thing though the trigger point hasn't been reached and one things for sure you'll be hard pushed to find a Wakey fan that would put money on that ever happening.
For confirmation of the above please contact Cllr Peter Box leader of WMDC and Castleford Shareholder.

Re: Wakey stadium plans collapse- again. : Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:22 pm  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

Oh ffs, bother to read and understand plain English, the money for the stadium is coming from the company who WMDC gave the greenbelt land to for them to build on, they are obligated by law to build the stadium in exchange for what they were given.

No it's not. Why would they cough up £millions when they don't need to?

Re: Wakey stadium plans collapse- again. : Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:24 pm  

So it seems no one is going to build wakey a stadium and hand it over free of charge so what is the alternative? Maybe it's more lucrative for carted to stomp his feet a bit then sell out to the highest bidder who wants a SL team in another city/country

Re: Wakey stadium plans collapse- again. : Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:34 pm  

LyndsayGill wrote:

A bit of clarification from a Trust Member which was released yesterday. Looks to me like the club are manning up and paying their way.

The deal at Newmarket which was put to and accepted by HM Planning Inspector was that in return for planning consent that took a great swaith of land out of Green Belt the Developer had to build, with a £2m contribution agreed by the Council a 12,000 capacity stadium and assiociated sporting facilities.

The Developer then had to transfer the land on which the stadium and other facilities sat to the Wakefield and District Community Trust (the Trust) for a peppercorn on a 99 year lease, effectively giving the stadium to the Trust.

The Trust in turn was then to sub-lease the Stadium and associated facilities to Spirit of 1873 Ltd (the Club) for a rent to be agreed between the Trust and Club - not the Developer or the Council.

The Trust agreed that the most economical and sustainable way to ensure that the Stadium was managed efficiently for the benefit of all was that the Club would take a FRI (Fully Repairing & Insuring) Lease whereby they are fully responsible for all costs associated with the running of the stadium such as Insurance, Council Tax/Rates, Heat, Light & Power, Maintenance and Repairs etc. etc. In return the Club would be able to generate revenues from the use of the stadiium on non match days such as conferences, weddings, concerts etc. in order to sustain the Club and ensure that the stadium would be maintained to a high standard and ensure its long term sustainability. There would be a covenant in the lease whereby the Club would have to make the stadium available for Community uses.

So the Club would be faced with a big bill in order to maintain and run the Stadium so I cannot see where the view that the Club is wanting a stadium without spending a sinle penny and then wants to benefit from the using the stadium comes from.

So that is the deal that we are looking for - nothing more than what was promised at and agreed at the Public Inquiry so I dont think the Club and the Trust are being unreasonable and the view by some that the Trust is "not fit for purpose". Unfotunately some appear to have a different purpose in mind to the Club and Trust.

Excellent post which sums it up perfectly, I think!

Re: Wakey stadium plans collapse- again. : Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:59 pm  

alleycat wrote:

Excellent post which sums it up perfectly, I think!

Agreed, it does clear up a few misconceptions.
However, when the original agreement was signed, does anyone know if there was a timescale to which the builders had to adhere to with regards to reaching the trigger point?
If not, surely they would build up to 99% and then stop. This might be extremely poor form from them, but legally I would have thought they would be well within there rights to do this.

For what its worth I do genuinely hope you do get the stadium and the terms you originally agreed to. It just seems that for all of the bluster about taking this to court, i’ve seen nothing to suggest this would help you in any way. Yes, there may be some who would be exposed as crooked, dodgy etc, but I cant see how this will help you at this stage.

Re: Wakey stadium plans collapse- again. : Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:34 pm  

Regardless of anything else, some SL clubs have been promising new stadiums since the inception of the licensing concept. Some have failed to deliver, and if we ever do return to a licensing situation, then I do think that the criteria needs to be based on existing facilities rather than any promises of future potential.

Decisions should be made around reality rather than vaporous promises.

Re: Wakey stadium plans collapse- again. : Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:14 am  

HXSparky wrote:

Regardless of anything else, some SL clubs have been promising new stadiums since the inception of the licensing concept. Some have failed to deliver, and if we ever do return to a licensing situation, then I do think that the criteria needs to be based on existing facilities rather than any promises of future potential.

Decisions should be made around reality rather than vaporous promises.

So you don't feel on-field performance should be the primary criterion, rather than a shiny stadium?

Two of the clubs with the worst SL stadia, were also amongst the best performing and entertaining. You think they should lose their place for, say, Halifax?

The Wakefield situation is very complicated and is not about the club wanting a free stadium - contrary to the WMDC announcement, WT are already paying commercial rent (and always have done).

This is about a developer being given over 200 acres of Greenbelt, with a legal obligation to provide community facilities in return. WMDC appear complicit in trying to ensure that the developer doesn't need to do this - why on Earth could this be? I can't imagine a reason why, can you?

The Secretary of State gave permission for the commercial development of the Greenbelt, as long as a stadium for WT to use as anchor was built in recompense.

The SoS dictated that the rent should be peppercorn, to ensure that the club is protected commercially (i.e. remains solvent under all foreseeable circumstances), and therefore won't go bust and ultimately leaving the community with a white elephant of a stadium.

It's worth pointing out that these are WMDC's/developers plans for a stadium solution, not WT's. They were suggested by Box & Hussein, when all WT are asking for is what was legally required at Newmarket.

Re: Wakey stadium plans collapse- again. : Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:26 pm  

That wasn't my point. I'm very happy for on-field performances to dictate which league teams play in. My point was that some clubs have made promises as part of their licence applications, and IF we do return to licensing then the criteria (of which stadium facilities would only be one) should require some substance behind them, if necessary with firm deadlines in place to meet them.

I would much rather Fax regain a place in SL by winning it on the field. Whether that ever happens in my lifetime is debatable, but I can but live in hope.

Re: Wakey stadium plans collapse- again. : Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:51 pm  

supersuperfc wrote:

Agreed, it does clear up a few misconceptions.
However, when the original agreement was signed, does anyone know if there was a timescale to which the builders had to adhere to with regards to reaching the trigger point?
If not, surely they would build up to 99% and then stop. This might be extremely poor form from them, but legally I would have thought they would be well within there rights to do this.

There was no timescale no, and yes, in theory they could just have built say 59,999 square metres and just stopped but they would have lost out on a hell of a lot of money doing it that way since the site is pretty big. Ultimately, had things been conducted properly, there wouldn't have been much point in the developer not building the ground as it would be significantly more profitable for them to carry on. The biggest issue is that there has already been 45,000 square metres built on there, meaning we should be 3/4 of the way towards the trigger point, yet thanks to the council and Rodney Walker we're still at zero as that doesn't count. Also, any potential legal action would ultimately centre around that, questioning the legality of allowing that to built as a separate planning application considering what the government said when it was passed seems to suggest that it's certainly a very questionable decision and the councils basis for allowing it to be built separately was that they had apparently taken legal advice which said to do that. Yet a FOI request revealed said that this legal advice doesn't actually exist.

Rodney Walker's role in this whole process absolutely stinks to be honest, and it's no coincidence that there only seems to have been any kind of progress made in the last year or so since Rodney Walker was kicked out of the trust after they smelt a rat. I wouldn't believe anything Wakefield Council say either, they spent about five years repeatedly saying it was nothing to do with them and refusing to get involved at all, yet now they're suddenly willing to pay for a brand new ground and it's the club who are being difficult. This would also be a new ground on the same site which Wakefield Trinity would most likely have bought just over a year ago, except Wakefield Council advised us not to bid as Yorkcourt were definitely going to buy it and it would just drive the price up. Unfortunately, the club believed them, Yorkcourt didn't bid and yet another developer is now involved after aquiring Belle Vue on the cheap and we now have two developers instead of one set to make a killing at Wakefield Trinity's expense.

The most irritating thing for most people is that you see stadiums all around the country being built thanks to significant input from local councils yet not only do Wakefield Council not help us but they pretty much actively hinder us time and time again.