Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:53 am  

gutterfax wrote:

I applaud all the work being done at Fev, but would add a slight word of caution.

Your owner has mentioned that he would be happy to place a 7 figure sum in escrow as some form of assurance if Fev were to step up to replace London in 2014.......the problem is, in late 2012 the owner of Bradford said something along the lines of he'd look to invest 2 million over a number of years but has in fact already shipped 1.74 million inside 12 months.
Bradford are averaging 8,800 or so this year yet have needed 1.74 million in "assistance" from their owner and a 200k loan from the council just to pay their wages. Fev would look to average maybe 3k less than Bradford.....the 7 figure guarantee wouldn't go very far and if you were getting spanked every week, neither would the fans. Better to let London stumble through 2014 and then test your "progress" in 2015 with the middle 8 scenario.

Spot on, but if they want to risk it, it is up to them, as you pointed out on another thread a couple of weeks ago, this new structure does give clubs a remit to build themselves in financial terms with regards income streams, and not all clubs will skin the cat the same way

Dont forget the Championship Clubs by their very nature are probably better organised than some SL clubs because they have had to be to survive

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:01 am  

Headhunter, they clearly weren't a well run club, especially after the RFL got involved.

All those people you disingenuously called flat cappers so it coming! Most if those flat cappers wanted licensing to work fairly and saw this coming - Celtic were the thin end if the wedge.

Parachuting a club into SL when unprepared doesn't work, you are correct, so why the hell bang on about creating new "franchises"?

Surely the answer is to invest in and improve what we have instead of strangling them? Give a sporting goal to aim to raise enthusiasm at a club?

Just keep digging from here

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:10 am  

Starbug wrote:

When are all the nobbheads on here going to realise we dont have half a dozen big city potential mega clubs just waiting to despatch Leeds and Wigan from their lofty perchs at the top of RL in this country

We have what we have, any improvement to it should be applauded, to belittle it just shows how completely out of touch with reality these idiots are

Again Headhunter, where are the other options?

Fev are building a stronger club, that should be applauded and encouraged, they are already probably a better run club than some in SL, because they have to be

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:41 am  

Headhunter. Which club do you go and watch, week in week out? Are you embarrassed to say that you don't actually watch live games and aren't a fan? Don't be, we're all friends on here.

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:23 pm  

freddies wig wrote:

Headhunter, they clearly weren't a well run club, especially after the RFL got involved.

All those people you disingenuously called flat cappers so it coming! Most if those flat cappers wanted licensing to work fairly and saw this coming - Celtic were the thin end if the wedge.

Parachuting a club into SL when unprepared doesn't work, you are correct, so why the hell bang on about creating new "franchises"?

Surely the answer is to invest in and improve what we have instead of strangling them? Give a sporting goal to aim to raise enthusiasm at a club?

Just keep digging from here

They clearly weren't a well run club, they were terribly run which is why they failed, although to be fair at the time I don't remember anyone questioning the running of the club, just the fact that they were 'Welsh'. I'm also pretty sure I've never personally called anyone a 'flat capper'. Again I'm not sure what this has to do with this debate. I haven't ever once talked about 'creating new franchises' so I'm not sure what you are talking about there, what I'm opposed to is a system that sees Super League limiting itself and holding itself back so that clubs with little potential can compete. The system of P&R that you seemingly advocate is designed for exactly what you're just talked about, parachuting unprepared clubs into Super League at short notice.

And Starbug, I've already answered your question. Super League should be comprised of the strongest 12 (or 14) teams. If Featherstone or any other clubs are part of that then they should be in, that's what the licensing system is. The problem comes when, in order to allow the likes of Featherstone to be included, people want to implement a system that means Super League is not necessarily made up of the strongest 12 teams. If Featherstone need to rely on an on-field lottery as the only means of winning promotion, are they really one of the strongest 12 clubs? Changing the system seems be an admission that they aren't, and what I can't understand is what is so special about clubs like Featherstone that the rest need to be held back for their sake.

[Wildthing]

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:46 pm  

littlerich wrote:

Headhunter. Which club do you go and watch, week in week out? Are you embarrassed to say that you don't actually watch live games and aren't a fan? Don't be, we're all friends on here.

Looks like he's ignoring said question ... again!

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:57 pm  

headhunter wrote:

They clearly weren't a well run club, they were terribly run which is why they failed, although to be fair at the time I don't remember anyone questioning the running of the club, just the fact that they were 'Welsh'. I'm also pretty sure I've never personally called anyone a 'flat capper'. Again I'm not sure what this has to do with this debate. I haven't ever once talked about 'creating new franchises' so I'm not sure what you are talking about there, what I'm opposed to is a system that sees Super League limiting itself and holding itself back so that clubs with little potential can compete. The system of P&R that you seemingly advocate is designed for exactly what you're just talked about, parachuting unprepared clubs into Super League at short notice.

You obviously didnt read my posts on the subject at the time then , I was clear without any anti Welsh or new club content, and unfortunatly the RFL started licencing in such a blatantly biased way it was doomed to fail, and it has failed only 1 or 2 clubs are actually operating susstainably, the rest are completely ' unprepared ' as it is

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:08 pm  

headhunter wrote:

And Starbug, I've already answered your question. Super League should be comprised of the strongest 12 (or 14) teams. If Featherstone or any other clubs are part of that then they should be in, that's what the licensing system is. The problem comes when, in order to allow the likes of Featherstone to be included, people want to implement a system that means Super League is not necessarily made up of the strongest 12 teams. If Featherstone need to rely on an on-field lottery as the only means of winning promotion, are they really one of the strongest 12 clubs? Changing the system seems be an admission that they aren't, and what I can't understand is what is so special about clubs like Featherstone that the rest need to be held back for their sake.

Team or club? , make your mind up? , and at what point do you decide who is the strongest club ? , how much debt is acceptable? , at this current moment probably half of SL clubs have more debt than Fev or even Fax,Leigh,Sheffield, probably the whole of the Championships

The only way licencing would have worked would have been for it to be completely fair ( any financial issues resulting in relegation ) and for the RFL to have made genuine attempts to improve the Championships to put pressure on the SL clubs

Instead we had a ' Gentlemans Club ' arrangement, it has done considerable damage to the sport

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:13 pm  

Starbug wrote:

You obviously didnt read my posts on the subject at the time then , I was clear without any anti Welsh or new club content, and unfortunatly the RFL started licencing in such a blatantly biased way it was doomed to fail, and it has failed only 1 or 2 clubs are actually operating susstainably, the rest are completely ' unprepared ' as it is

Poor implementation doesn't mean the system itself is wrong. If you thought removing promotion and relegation would instantly mean all SL clubs were turning a profit then obviously that's an unrealistic expectation. The fact is that, in principle, the licensing system allows for far more sustainability and growth than automatic P&R. And I don't see how anyone can dispute that.

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:20 pm  

headhunter wrote:

Poor implementation doesn't mean the system itself is wrong. If you thought removing promotion and relegation would instantly mean all SL clubs were turning a profit then obviously that's an unrealistic expectation. The fact is that, in principle, the licensing system allows for far more sustainability and growth than automatic P&R. And I don't see how anyone can dispute that.

It does ' allow for it ' , but it also needs the fans to be willing to accept that it could take 20 years before they play a truly meaningful match again, and that they wont do, and the club owners know that