I'm really not convinced that the sport in this country is on enough of a sure footing to be able to cope with such radical expansion ventures. The player pool is dwindling, not expanding. Participation in schools is going down, not up. Probably the worst thing you can do in such a situation is introduce 1 or 2 expansion clubs who, for the immediate future at least, won't be adding anything to that player pool and only taking from it.

Do you have a link or some more information on their TV deal ??

AS for youngsters coming along as fans, TWP have done a fantastic job in getting bums on seats but, honestly, how long will it take to "create" any Canadian players.

Have they tried to look at the current players and Union players over there or, do you think they are just pretending to put things in place.



Their "search for a star" from gridiron looked great but, ultimately, turned out to be a publicity stunt. They are Canadian in name only and that has to change.



As I said, they are a UK based side, that will struggle to employ Canadian players

New York are launching today. Surprised Donnyman hasn't copied and pasted one of his rants?!



For what it's worth Ottawa seem to be making the right noises and seem to have learned from Toronto. Lets hope New York (to launch the year after) do the same. Still seems daft to me that these teams are based in England though - it would be much more attractive to sell it as a two year overseas adventure especially for young players.

Catalans also produced a side full of local French talent which saw the likes of Greogry Mounis, Thomas Bosc, Jamal Fakir and Rémi Casty go on to have illustrious SL careers.



For a Canadian team to be successful IMO then it needs to be a 10 year+ plan, not 3 seasons worth of rugby having thrown a bag full of money at their players. They should play in their own league based in Canada, attract local talent (Quinn Naqwati being a prime example) and GROW.

Again when you have a sport where so many are hellbent on sticking to the M62 you have a problem when the numbers decrease.



The game years ago had decisions to make about getting player participation up around the county.



Why do we stage World Cup games in different areas of the country but do nothing else?



World cup 2021 venues. South West? East Midlands? No let's not bother.

what i don't get about the whole expansion business is that for years folk have been decrying the game for being too insular and confined to the m62 corridor (rightly or wrongly that is the perception). then as soon as someone comes along who is prepared to introduce the game to different markets we get critisisms, mockery and downright hostility - people who would dance about if the clubs failed and we went back to a few clubs in the north again. i'm old enough to remember hostility towards london and their relegation and quota exemptions and a similar thing happened in the early days of catalans



taking aside the business models and some of the management comments and decisions of these new clubs, surely any venture which exposes rugby league to a whole new audience who are actually keen and free of some of the entrenchments of the traditional game can only be a good thing. Playing in the UK is a necessity for now but who's to say a north american league cannot start in 10 years time or so. if we don't give these clubs a chance we will never find out.

Sean Wane put it perfectly on backchat.



Rugby League in the country doesn't need outside enemies. It kills itself with all the negativity and people hoping something new fails.

Toronto have been around for four years now. How much work within the community has been done in this time? Do they have an academy? Are they and the governing body making any efforts to get the sport played in local schools? What about some amateur clubs, have the governing body helped to get any set up and running?



I'm all for expansion and growing the game but you have to start at the very bottom and work up. It's not going to work if you take shortcuts. Doing this right will take years as you say. Are the Toronto/Ottawa/New York money men willing to stick around that long for success? I'm doubtful.

Decent post.

Perhaps if there was some honesty and transparency as to what RL is hoping to achieve, the more cynical ones among us would climb on board.



The fear is that half of the "traditional" clubs may go bust in the chase for the N. American dream and although Leeds, Saints and Wigan would be safe (probably), there is a real danger that some of the UK based clubs could disappear on the back of the experiment and this is where the hostility comes from.



Plus of course the balmy logistics in playing some weekly games 3500 miles from the UK - in an era where some are trying to persuade people to travel less to "save the planet" RL seems to be doing the opposite - this will be for another day if/when climate change becomes even more important.

What do you want them to do? Scrap around in the lower leagues for 5 years?



They started at the bottom and won promotion. Ottawa are starting at the bottom unless you propose putting them in pub leagues. The whole point of this exercise is to start franchises which grow into big clubs in the sport. We do not need North American sides slumming it at the bottom. That does nothing for the sport!

Valencia, Toronto, New York, Ottowa, Toulouse, Red Star Belgrade, London, York, Leigh, Featherstone, Bradford, Widnes, Newcastle. Two tier super league anyone?

Traditional clubs have had over 100 years to get their own houses in order and to grow into sustainable business's.

Where did I say that? Read what I put.

Toronto are playing in the only structure available to them, it's not their fault. I just wonder what happens if/when they get relegated. Hopefully they persevere and start to develop their own talent. But like I said, it will take a long time.

Which is why they shouldn't be relegated. Relegation shouldn't be an option for Toronto. It should be scrapped as we don't even have two leagues to make it sustainable but SL itself should have come together and accepted for the greater good Toronto remain in SL no matter what.

Oh that one again



I would say that if they have been around for 100 + years, they have been extremely sustainable





Also, remember just why we play in summer.

Two of the biggest clubs of the 80's and 90's (Wigan and Widnes)brought themselves and the sport to the verge of bankruptcy.



I wont be here to mark my businesses centenary but, if it makes it, I would view that as success, YOU clearly wouldn't





Also worth noting that the new clubs simply couldn't and wouldn't exist if it wasn't for thos clubs that have helped get the sport to where it is.

If they were so fecking good, we'd all want to join the N. American League...............................if only there was one

I am an expansionist, but this Canada nonsense is crackers.



You can tell me I'm a luddite, flat capper etc. I am not, I just know a farce when I see one.

If a club 3500 miles away means bankruptcy then yes I would question how sustainable that business is.



I mean its not like we dont have professional teams who shudder at the thought of having to travel to Canada once and felt a need to exclude Toronto from a tiny share of television money.

Are you deliberately talking nonsense ?



We know that we support a game that isn't in great financial health and so we decide to add new clubs 3500 miles away, that cant play a full set of home fixtures during the regular season, (Ottawa will be slightly worse as they will be even further north), increase the cost burden for all of the existing clubs, hand over "our" players etc, etc, when there has been little to no effort so far for Toronto to begin finding their own "homegrown" players, either from the existing American RL or from Union.



The Bankruptcy (or the brink of it), if you can remember came immediately before the inception of SL, when Maurice Linsdsay of Wigan brokered a TV deal with Sky as his club, along with certain others had brought the game to it's knees.

The issue with having multiple N. American clubs, plus Catalan and Toulouse, in the comp is that they add to the costs of EVERY competing club and as I mentioned, the sport is not awash with cash, far from it.

Most businesses if things were tight, would not wish to take on additional cost, plus the loss of revenue from the lack of visiting fans etc.



Its great to look at the potential upside to all of this but, if the sport were being responsible, it would also take note of the potential downside, not least that Toronto need huge injections of cash to survive and profit seems not to be remotely neccessary or likely.

All the lads and lasses there

They all had smilin' faces...

Quote puroresu_boy="puroresu_boy"Again when you have a sport where so many are hellbent on sticking to the M62.... Why do we stage World Cup games in different areas of the country but do nothing else? World cup 2021 venues. South West? East Midlands? No let's not bother.'" They were constrained to hold something like 80% of the RLWC 2021 games in the North to comply with funding (which was allocated to Northern projects). https://www.rlnews.co.uk/80-of-world-cu ... f-england/

Quote puroresu_boy="puroresu_boy"Again when you have a sport where so many are hellbent on sticking to the M62.... Why do we stage World Cup games in different areas of the country but do nothing else? World cup 2021 venues. South West? East Midlands? No let's not bother.'" They were constrained to hold something like 80% of the RLWC 2021 games in the North to comply with funding (which was allocated to Northern projects). https://www.rlnews.co.uk/80-of-world-cu ... f-england/

there are some extremist expansionism that are just going too far taking no care into how or who is brought in, I'm now going to sit a wait for it all to fail and come back with I told you so when it does but it won't be with a smile on my face

Well TWP are exposing Toronto to our game at the top level. However at the same time London Broncos are no longer exposing Londoners to top class Rugby league. There is no junior or academy game in Toronto yet there is in London and London lads have lost their pathway to Superleague accordingly. For me the nett result is a -minus for the game especially the way London heroically competed well in Superleague and TWP have just collapsed in their opening to the season.



With respect you must look at it both ways and for me on balance the addition of TWP to SL in replacement of the Broncos is actually not a good thing unless you ignore the plight of the Broncos, which you certainly do as do 90% of people who comment on this matter.



Ottawa need to do it properly and grow the game itself something Mr. Perez initially promised through the growth of home grown players no matter how long it takes. If their entry is on that basis I support it 100%.

If expansion is going to work then there should be six heritage teams and six ‘expansion’ teams to start with.



The heritage teams would be St Helens, Wigan, Warrington, Leeds, Hull and Castleford.



Toronto, Ottawa, New York, Catalans, Toulouse and London



No promotion no relegation an NRL style tournament.



All TV money goes to these 12 ‘professional ‘ clubs and there is an NFL draft so that no other clubs in any ‘complementary’ leagues can contract players until the above 12 teams have completed their 25 man squads.



All the other clubs would compete in a two tier league with the top league being part time and the second league amateur with an option for ‘five’ marquee part time players.



This competition would be played November to April, the top league April to October so all teams can play their home games at home.



To make up the fixtures for the two tier competition the Yorkshire and Lancashire Cups would be revived.



The Challenge cup would become a semi professional competition.



Assuming the UK teams retained SKY for UK games it would be incumbent on the French teams to get a self funding TV deal and the Nth American teams likewise.



Well that’s what the game could look like in the future but the interesting thing would be how long before the ‘heritage’ teams fans got fed up of only being able to watch 11 home games, half with no away support at all ?



Call me whatever you like but oh for the days of local derbies, decent Bank Holiday crowds and being able to watch everyone of my teams games without outlandish travel costs.



Well tonight I sort of get to sample it a Wednesday night cup game, these used to be special in my younger days, against a manufactured team with no away support and huge cries from elsewhere the poor crowd is all Huddersfield’s fault !!!



Bring on expansion for gates of 20,000 plus each week... AS IF

VERY astute.



Do any of us think that Eric Perez and Ralph Rimmer are going to sit back and allow Superleague to take a reduced £150M SKY deal over the coming year and do nothing about it?



Superleague wanted to cut Rimmer and 17 small championship clubs adrift the other year, Superleague want to kill Perez's American dream.



All bets are off - Lenegan McManus and Pearson are currently touting an English League to SKY, but there is nothing to stop Rimmer, and Perez touting a transatlantic league to NATV



The only glaring mistake in your thinking is Bradford Bulls will certainly be the first English club touted in a Transatlantic deal. In addition Ottawa Aces and New York may have no substance now - but Perez and Rimmer will no doubt be saying that players for these clubs will be found from the squads of the English clubs who don't make the transatlantic cut - and your right - Fartown would be killed off.

Quote wrencat1873="wrencat1873"Do you have a link or some more information on their TV deal ?? AS for youngsters coming along as fans, TWP have done a fantastic job in getting bums on seats but, honestly, how long will it take to "create" any Canadian players. Have they tried to look at the current players and Union players over there or, do you think they are just pretending to put things in place. Their "search for a star" from gridiron looked great but, ultimately, turned out to be a publicity stunt. They are Canadian in name only and that has to change. As I said, they are a UK based side, that will struggle to employ Canadian players '" Apologies for the long reply. https://www.torontowolfpack.com/toronto ... on-opener/

Quote wrencat1873="wrencat1873"Do you have a link or some more information on their TV deal ?? AS for youngsters coming along as fans, TWP have done a fantastic job in getting bums on seats but, honestly, how long will it take to "create" any Canadian players. Have they tried to look at the current players and Union players over there or, do you think they are just pretending to put things in place. Their "search for a star" from gridiron looked great but, ultimately, turned out to be a publicity stunt. They are Canadian in name only and that has to change. As I said, they are a UK based side, that will struggle to employ Canadian players '" Apologies for the long reply. https://www.torontowolfpack.com/toronto ... on-opener/