Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:21 pm  

RLBandit wrote:

One of the paradoxes of a big event like the Olympics is that it doesn't particularly drive people to go and watch the sport domestically. Having just watched the elite, in some ways, watching the day-in-day-out competition can feel like it would be a let-down. County Cricket both suffers and benefits from the commercial success of England. Cash trickles down by design, but interest doesn't. The relationship between the highest international levels of a sport and domestic competition are very complex, and very different across sports - there's no easy "do this and it'll all be reet" answer. For example, we bemoan the lack of high-level international RL - but realistically, is trying to ape (say) the 6 nations the way forward? If it's not realistic, we need to look at other sports for different parallels. For example, football would carry on almost as normal if the world cup and other internationals were all stopped tomorrow. The highest national domestic leagues and the Champions League would see to that. For me, that's why I've always thought that every effort should be made to develop our equivalent of the Champions League - not some one-off end-of-season jamboree, but something embedded in the sport - that the best of the northern and southern hemispheres should have regular clashes, sufficiently spread through the season to encourage higher interest, and strive for the almost constant media coverage other sports achieve as games are covered in build up and aftermath, not just on the day.

This in itself feel miles away, and very difficult to achieve, but it seems like a better use of time and resource than trying to manufacture international teams and competitions.

Which is not to say we shouldn't have a world cup, lions tours, develop smaller nations (those where the interest in the sport is real that is ). All these are Good Things, but are not the shortest route to boosting the profile of the game. Higher profile feeds on itself, and helps build every aspect of the game, so lets seek the easiest (relatively that is, none are 'easy') path to convincing journalists and broadcasters that Something Important is happening and worth shouting about.

I agree somewhat with this, we do need to lose our obsession with being like RU and focus on what are realistic targets for us.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:34 pm  

Pop Tart those are good numbers for Wakey and long may it continue. How have they driven the crowds up over the last couple of years - is it down to discounted tickets or are there other factors?
I think the Giants have suffered this year because the ST's went back up to "normal" levels and there seems to be a reduction in the numbers of away supporters (in general though one or two may have maintained their level). add to this very poor marketing within the area and the team hasn't got the support it deserves - winning is not enough it seems!

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:54 pm  

Watching gutters lose it after being shown up for a union troll he is is highly amusing. You stated sports were riding the wave of Olympics and getting bigger crowds, suggesting rl is even worse than it appears, I merely pointed out one sport that clearly isn't. I could have chosen soccer where most comps except the epl are down on attendances but I choose to use union to show you up as I knew you would get a tizz on. You didn't let me down!

[PopTart]

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:42 pm  

gazzagiant wrote:

Pop Tart those are good numbers for Wakey and long may it continue. How have they driven the crowds up over the last couple of years - is it down to discounted tickets or are there other factors?
I think the Giants have suffered this year because the ST's went back up to "normal" levels and there seems to be a reduction in the numbers of away supporters (in general though one or two may have maintained their level). add to this very poor marketing within the area and the team hasn't got the support it deserves - winning is not enough it seems!

Well there is of course a lot of debate about the "how".

There is no doubt, the ST deals have helped.
This year standing tickets have ranged from £100 to £180 I think, depending on when you bought it.
They are already selling for next year at the starting bargain rate of £150 going up after this week. So we'll see if the numbers drop off but I bought mine and a lot seem to be doing the same.

Personally I think it is much improved marketing. Getting people in cheaply only helps if it drags others in.
By getting a decent crowd going, and a better atmosphere with the new tin roof (it makes the crowd sound much louder) it is much more a place to be than it used to be. People are bringing mates now when they used to be embarassed about a small crowd and poor toilets!
It helps that we are more competitive but whether it is social media, forums, our own page or community activities....the Wildcats name is seen a lot more and talked about in a much more positive way.
That for me is purely down to the new owner and his team.

Still lots to improve but we heading in a good direction. Cash flow, same as everyone is a problem, but the big crowds are helping that. Board very happy to get to the Leeds game and catch up on the big home crowd.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:11 pm  

JonB95 wrote: Gutters I frankly don't appreciate your tone of argument nor your claim that you 'shamed' me. Well, maybe if you hadn't..... JonB95 wrote: I assumed you meant sports like RU .....I wouldn't have had to point out your glaring error. JonB95 wrote: No sport has been directly boosted at all by the Olympics being in Britain. Do you want to further define "sport" to try and narrow down the statement I made that sport was riding on the wave of the Olympics? Participation? Professional? Team? Individual? I mean to say, it's not like the RFL would have used the "imaginary" Olympic wave to market their RLWC's is it...?Oh...hang on http://www.rlwc2013.com/uksport http://www.rlwc2013.com/rugby-league-world-news/article/964/wembley-semi-finals-will-be-a

JonB95 wrote: Gutters I frankly don't appreciate your tone of argument nor your claim that you 'shamed' me. Well, maybe if you hadn't..... JonB95 wrote: I assumed you meant sports like RU .....I wouldn't have had to point out your glaring error. JonB95 wrote: No sport has been directly boosted at all by the Olympics being in Britain. Do you want to further define "sport" to try and narrow down the statement I made that sport was riding on the wave of the Olympics? Participation? Professional? Team? Individual? I mean to say, it's not like the RFL would have used the "imaginary" Olympic wave to market their RLWC's is it...?Oh...hang on http://www.rlwc2013.com/uksport http://www.rlwc2013.com/rugby-league-world-news/article/964/wembley-semi-finals-will-be-a

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:44 pm  

gutterfax wrote: Well, maybe if you hadn't..... .....I wouldn't have had to point out your glaring error. Do you want to further define "sport" to try and narrow down the statement I made that sport was riding on the wave of the Olympics? Participation? Professional? Team? Individual? I mean to say, it's not like the RFL would have used the "imaginary" Olympic wave to market their RLWC's is it...?Oh...hang on http://www.rlwc2013.com/uksport http://www.rlwc2013.com/rugby-league-world-news/article/964/wembley-semi-finals-will-be-a Of course they are using the Olympics as a marketing tool. They would be stupid not to. That doesn't exactly back up the point that you were making about other sports benefitting from it??!?

gutterfax wrote: Well, maybe if you hadn't..... .....I wouldn't have had to point out your glaring error. Do you want to further define "sport" to try and narrow down the statement I made that sport was riding on the wave of the Olympics? Participation? Professional? Team? Individual? I mean to say, it's not like the RFL would have used the "imaginary" Olympic wave to market their RLWC's is it...?Oh...hang on http://www.rlwc2013.com/uksport http://www.rlwc2013.com/rugby-league-world-news/article/964/wembley-semi-finals-will-be-a Of course they are using the Olympics as a marketing tool. They would be stupid not to. That doesn't exactly back up the point that you were making about other sports benefitting from it??!?

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:24 pm  

JB Down Under wrote:

Watching gutters lose it after being shown up for a union troll he is is highly amusing. You stated sports were riding the wave of Olympics and getting bigger crowds, suggesting rl is even worse than it appears, I merely pointed out one sport that clearly isn't. I could have chosen soccer where most comps except the epl are down on attendances but I choose to use union to show you up as I knew you would get a tizz on. You didn't let me down!

Oh dear....it seems you have no concept of adult sporting preferences and are a remnant of the never lamented "self appointed defenders of the RL faith"
1. What exactly is your definition of a Union Troll? After the wag in you has replied "you", why not give that question some thought in the context of my posts on this forum, rather than your personal feelings towards the bigger, more popular and better run code of Rugby.
2. On the subject of Union being a Bigger, more popular and better Run code of Rugby, please try to limit your reference to a domestic TV deal and 3 midweek games that nobody outside of Australia watches to a minimum. In return, I won't point out that the autumn RU international series in England, Wales, France and Ireland this year will attract far greater numbers of fans and general media interest than the RLWC across the board.
3. I always post essays......you and to a greater extent the other "self appointed defenders of the RL faith" who are no longer with us on these boards have no chance of getting me in a Tizz (whatever Tizz is?).
4. I deal in reality.....your attempts to turn this into a debate about me and Union show you for the narrow minded poster that you are....your hatred of another sport is insane at worst, deluded at best, but it helps you cloud the topic under debate...the 11.5% drop in SL attendances and the 15.5% drop in CC crowds. You were happy toad French Union to the debate, but ignored the Amlin and Pro-12 Union comps that didn't suit your argument.


Lastly, as for painting RL in a worse state than it really is, let's examine the facts across the Northern hemisphere shall we?
Sky TV are paying a the RFL/SL a fraction of the money that BT has paid for other sports...soccer in the Barclays Premiership, Blue Square Conference and FA Cup, Rugby with the Aviva premiership with £152m over 4 years. I believe that works out at £38m a year....or double what SKY pay for the SL for less games.
Lastly, on the topic of TV deals...SKY weren't bothered about the RLWC.....so the majority of that comp will be available on access TV or in Rileys snooker halls Premier Sports lost their flagship soccer content to BT.....6,500 subscribers??? 6,500 as a crowd at a game in SL gets lambasted on these boards

Then there's the sponsors...or as they are referred to by the RFL, PARTNERS: Basically, there was little if any interest in the naming rights of the premier RL comp in the NH......so bits were syphoned off for minimal income to foxy bingo et al....£4.25 million a year is the current AVIVA deal, whilst the Dutch brewer Heineken estimates it has pumped £100,000,000 into Union in the last 20 years.
Tetley" were announced as CC sponsors with no reference to amounts...a worrying trend given prior delight at releasing financial figures.

Crowds are down. You will debate with me about increased prices, but the fact remains that crowds are down across the board (Leeds accepted). The majority of clubs are not on a secure financial footing (nothing new in PRO team sports) and the league is looking to reduce the number of clubs to try and offer another route to stability. HKR and London Broncos are to lose their benefactors at the end of this season, Salford new owner is in reality looking to short term success to build crowds...a method that has never worked in the short term (Melbourne are up 33% since 1998.....33% on the back of a few GF's etc....33% for Salford will have them still under 5k).

Clubs like Huddersfield are 100% reliant on their benefactor and it can't be good business practice to rely on the health of one man. Leeds and Wigan are showing the rest how it is done, but there is still ingrained an attitude for immediate gratification in League....I believe the good Dr at Salford sees himself as a sort of Abramovich of the north

The RFL seem content to continue to reward failure....the exiles id a broken concept, last autumns internationals were a farce (1,500 in Wales???) and the RLWC ticket sales are never announced without spin, smoke and mirrors and a fair amount of truth bending. The previous RLWC in Britain had a £1,000,000 naming rights sponsor...this one has an official hire car supplier and an official hotel partner......hardly good news central is it?

On the pitch, the game continues to be streets ahead of all other team sports on offer in the UK, but it is off the park that the woes are dragging the sport backwards.

If all goes the way most expect it to, by 2015 RL in Britain will be yet again an M62 hobby with a French team from the south west of France. Sky will be 3 years into their current 5 year deal and will be hard pressed to convince advertisers as to their "mythical" southern audience. The English media, for whatever reason, will report negative stories about RL and the demise of London (a totally different topic BTW) will be pounced upon and reported as proof that League is a northern pastime.

there are some Rugby League fans who will be happy once GB have managed to beat the Aussies in a series or a World cup, but in reality, the sport has a fragile framework holding it up professionally with little or no "plan B" if SKY were to walk away...the 100% reliance on the TV partnership is a horrific way to run a professional sports business, but increasingly, with each passing year, the revenue stream comes from SKY first with everything else tagged on. Take away TV coverage of RL and you run the risk of a return to semi-professional RL....and no chance of GB beating Australia in a series (unless the team is crammed with NRL based players)

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:07 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

Oh dear....it seems you have no concept of adult sporting preferences and are a remnant of the never lamented "self appointed defenders of the RL faith"
1. What exactly is your definition of a Union Troll? After the wag in you has replied "you", why not give that question some thought in the context of my posts on this forum, rather than your personal feelings towards the bigger, more popular and better run code of Rugby.
2. On the subject of Union being a Bigger, more popular and better Run code of Rugby, please try to limit your reference to a domestic TV deal and 3 midweek games that nobody outside of Australia watches to a minimum. In return, I won't point out that the autumn RU international series in England, Wales, France and Ireland this year will attract far greater numbers of fans and general media interest than the RLWC across the board.
3. I always post essays......you and to a greater extent the other "self appointed defenders of the RL faith" who are no longer with us on these boards have no chance of getting me in a Tizz (whatever Tizz is?).
4. I deal in reality.....your attempts to turn this into a debate about me and Union show you for the narrow minded poster that you are....your hatred of another sport is insane at worst, deluded at best, but it helps you cloud the topic under debate...the 11.5% drop in SL attendances and the 15.5% drop in CC crowds. You were happy toad French Union to the debate, but ignored the Amlin and Pro-12 Union comps that didn't suit your argument.


Lastly, as for painting RL in a worse state than it really is, let's examine the facts across the Northern hemisphere shall we?
Sky TV are paying a the RFL/SL a fraction of the money that BT has paid for other sports...soccer in the Barclays Premiership, Blue Square Conference and FA Cup, Rugby with the Aviva premiership with £152m over 4 years. I believe that works out at £38m a year....or double what SKY pay for the SL for less games.
Lastly, on the topic of TV deals...SKY weren't bothered about the RLWC.....so the majority of that comp will be available on access TV or in Rileys snooker halls Premier Sports lost their flagship soccer content to BT.....6,500 subscribers??? 6,500 as a crowd at a game in SL gets lambasted on these boards

Then there's the sponsors...or as they are referred to by the RFL, PARTNERS: Basically, there was little if any interest in the naming rights of the premier RL comp in the NH......so bits were syphoned off for minimal income to foxy bingo et al....£4.25 million a year is the current AVIVA deal, whilst the Dutch brewer Heineken estimates it has pumped £100,000,000 into Union in the last 20 years.
Tetley" were announced as CC sponsors with no reference to amounts...a worrying trend given prior delight at releasing financial figures.

Crowds are down. You will debate with me about increased prices, but the fact remains that crowds are down across the board (Leeds accepted). The majority of clubs are not on a secure financial footing (nothing new in PRO team sports) and the league is looking to reduce the number of clubs to try and offer another route to stability. HKR and London Broncos are to lose their benefactors at the end of this season, Salford new owner is in reality looking to short term success to build crowds...a method that has never worked in the short term (Melbourne are up 33% since 1998.....33% on the back of a few GF's etc....33% for Salford will have them still under 5k).

Clubs like Huddersfield are 100% reliant on their benefactor and it can't be good business practice to rely on the health of one man. Leeds and Wigan are showing the rest how it is done, but there is still ingrained an attitude for immediate gratification in League....I believe the good Dr at Salford sees himself as a sort of Abramovich of the north

The RFL seem content to continue to reward failure....the exiles id a broken concept, last autumns internationals were a farce (1,500 in Wales???) and the RLWC ticket sales are never announced without spin, smoke and mirrors and a fair amount of truth bending. The previous RLWC in Britain had a £1,000,000 naming rights sponsor...this one has an official hire car supplier and an official hotel partner......hardly good news central is it?

On the pitch, the game continues to be streets ahead of all other team sports on offer in the UK, but it is off the park that the woes are dragging the sport backwards.

If all goes the way most expect it to, by 2015 RL in Britain will be yet again an M62 hobby with a French team from the south west of France. Sky will be 3 years into their current 5 year deal and will be hard pressed to convince advertisers as to their "mythical" southern audience. The English media, for whatever reason, will report negative stories about RL and the demise of London (a totally different topic BTW) will be pounced upon and reported as proof that League is a northern pastime.

there are some Rugby League fans who will be happy once GB have managed to beat the Aussies in a series or a World cup, but in reality, the sport has a fragile framework holding it up professionally with little or no "plan B" if SKY were to walk away...the 100% reliance on the TV partnership is a horrific way to run a professional sports business, but increasingly, with each passing year, the revenue stream comes from SKY first with everything else tagged on. Take away TV coverage of RL and you run the risk of a return to semi-professional RL....and no chance of GB beating Australia in a series (unless the team is crammed with NRL based players)

Yes, but Smokey reckons the RFL have got a strategic plan, so I'm sure it'll all be sorted out. One look at Nigel Wood is enough to convince me that he's a dynamic leader, in full command of the situation.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:18 pm  

RLBandit wrote:

Yes, but Smokey reckons the RFL have got a strategic plan, so I'm sure it'll all be sorted out. One look at Nigel Wood is enough to convince me that he's a dynamic leader, in full command of the situation.

Nigel is one of very many stealing a wage at the RFL.

Re: Opening SL weekend sees attendances tumbling by 12.66% : Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:28 pm  

Some people are never happy unless they're moaning!