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Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:57 pm  
rollin thunder wrote:
might as well call in the M62 super league. but some small minded fans prefer that.
the championship will end up having a better geographical worldwide spread than our premier competition.
the small minded attitude of Rl fans is what contributes to RL low appeal. the game is very close to being put on its last legs, if sky pulls the plug on us were finished.


In the main I'd say the Championship has always had a wider geographical footprint than the SL
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Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:11 pm  
do championship clubs get any travel costs from the rfl to toulouse?

if not, thow in another trip to catalan if they go down, plus toronto (if any extra costs to be covered) could really hurt some clubs financially
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Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:13 pm  
Who's up for an Easter Weekend road trip at Catalans & Toulouse?
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Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:37 pm  
number 6 wrote:
do championship clubs get any travel costs from the rfl to toulouse?

if not, thow in another trip to catalan if they go down, plus toronto (if any extra costs to be covered) could really hurt some clubs financially


No and Catalan and Toulouse don't get any money towards travel to England every other week
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Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:28 am  
kobashi wrote:
No and Catalan and Toulouse don't get any money towards travel to England every other week


Well they where invited to the party and accepted.12 years later and you have a problem! How's about sorting it out,and stop leaving it to others.
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I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls


Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.


Jamie Jones-Buchanan wrote:
"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.

Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:00 am  
atomic wrote:
Well they where invited to the party and accepted.12 years later and you have a problem! How's about sorting it out,and stop leaving it to others.


Likewise those clubs complaining about poor crowds due to a lack of away fans. They're had 12 years to find a solution to that problem - they should stop leaving it to others to fill their grounds for them.
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Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:20 am  
bramleyrhino wrote:
Likewise those clubs complaining about poor crowds due to a lack of away fans. They're had 12 years to find a solution to that problem - they should stop leaving it to others to fill their grounds for them.


Whilst it is the responsibility of all clubs to properly market their home games and maximise all of their revenue streams, particularly on match day.
12 years ago, I dont think that ANY club would have foreseen the possibility of 3 overseas clubs and London in RL's second tier and the drop in revenue that comes with it.
When you factor in some of the additional cost of travel etc plus the need for any part time players to take time off, this becomes a real test and the major thing is that there is nothing extra in contribution form the RFL to off set these increases in cost and considering the shoestring that many clubs live upon, there could be some serious ramifications.
Of course 2 of the 4 will be wanting to escape the Championship at the end of next season but, this may not happen.
We still get back to the fact that the "expansion" clubs have to bring something to the party and not merely dilute the domestic game and I say this as a person who does see the need for the game to grow.
It's imperative that The RFL do their bit to increase the TV deal.
If not, we are sacrificing the domestic game for the good of The French and North Americans.
In the long term this may be a price worth paying.

However no other business model would take on substantial extra cost and deliberately reduce their income, without some reasonable prospect of medium/long term gain.

RL is gambling like hell on a brighter future, without any certainty of success and you wonder what the drivers of this are or, whether the games management are sitting in a quiet room with their fingers crossed.
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Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:35 am  
wrencat1873 wrote:
Whilst it is the responsibility of all clubs to properly market their home games and maximise all of their revenue streams, particularly on match day.
12 years ago, I dont think that ANY club would have foreseen the possibility of 3 overseas clubs and London in RL's second tier and the drop in revenue that comes with it.
When you factor in some of the additional cost of travel etc plus the need for any part time players to take time off, this becomes a real test and the major thing is that there is nothing extra in contribution form the RFL to off set these increases in cost and considering the shoestring that many clubs live upon, there could be some serious ramifications.
Of course 2 of the 4 will be wanting to escape the Championship at the end of next season but, this may not happen.
We still get back to the fact that the "expansion" clubs have to bring something to the party and not merely dilute the domestic game and I say this as a person who does see the need for the game to grow.
It's imperative that The RFL do their bit to increase the TV deal.
If not, we are sacrificing the domestic game for the good of The French and North Americans.
In the long term this may be a price worth paying.

However no other business model would take on substantial extra cost and deliberately reduce their income, without some reasonable prospect of medium/long term gain.

RL is gambling like hell on a brighter future, without any certainty of success and you wonder what the drivers of this are or, whether the games management are sitting in a quiet room with their fingers crossed.

that is the problem and I do not think the people in charge can run a mickey up in a brewery never mind rugby league it is time for a clean sweep of them that are in charge and I for one am in favour of all the over seas teams its a pity we can not get the aussies to put a team in that would be good
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I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls


Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.


Jamie Jones-Buchanan wrote:
"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.

Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:37 am  
wrencat1873 wrote:
Whilst it is the responsibility of all clubs to properly market their home games and maximise all of their revenue streams, particularly on match day.
12 years ago, I dont think that ANY club would have foreseen the possibility of 3 overseas clubs and London in RL's second tier and the drop in revenue that comes with it.
When you factor in some of the additional cost of travel etc plus the need for any part time players to take time off, this becomes a real test and the major thing is that there is nothing extra in contribution form the RFL to off set these increases in cost and considering the shoestring that many clubs live upon, there could be some serious ramifications.
Of course 2 of the 4 will be wanting to escape the Championship at the end of next season but, this may not happen.
We still get back to the fact that the "expansion" clubs have to bring something to the party and not merely dilute the domestic game and I say this as a person who does see the need for the game to grow.
It's imperative that The RFL do their bit to increase the TV deal.
If not, we are sacrificing the domestic game for the good of The French and North Americans.
In the long term this may be a price worth paying.

However no other business model would take on substantial extra cost and deliberately reduce their income, without some reasonable prospect of medium/long term gain.

RL is gambling like hell on a brighter future, without any certainty of success and you wonder what the drivers of this are or, whether the games management are sitting in a quiet room with their fingers crossed.


I agree with a lot of that, and this is where there is a real lack of joined up thinking from all sides, and where we have the clubs and RFL seemingly pulling in different directions. I suppose that's understandable - a lot of clubs are in self-preservation mode because they see expansion as a threat rather than an opportunity - but without leadership, we let the tail wag the dog. We let clubs vote to give real-terms pay cuts to our talent, to flog out talent with more and more fixtures, and vote to cut reserve and academy teams.

I've said before that we can't simply expect to get more from Sky simply because we ask for it. We have to look at what value we're actually offering Sky and, if I was sat on Sky's side of the negotiating table, I'd see a sport with falling crowds, a competition with a receeding geographic spread and played in only two of the major media markets in the UK (there's a reason Leeds United are the most televised Football League team on Sky Sports), a competition that is losing or struggling to keep what little "box office" talent it has, a sport watched by audience demographics that have limited appeal to advertisers and a sport with a diminishing profile. Am I going to pay more for that?

And that, to me, is where the clubs AND the RFL both need to sort themselves out. I actually don't think the consumer side of the RFL's marketing is that bad - far from perfect - but the real problems are in the commercial marketing side.

However, the RFL can only "sell" the audience that the clubs are providing and on this front, its where the clubs are failing. They're talking to the same audiences that they always were, saturating the same markets, and we're losing supporters along the way. The RFL really needs to be setting its marketing goals, and then insisting that the clubs deploy or follow an focused strategy to support that.

I see clubs failing to use the tools that they have available to them effectively - I spoke to one SL club that was spending 60% of its social media advertising budget on advertising to fans who were already buying the product - I've spoken to two other clubs that don't even have a social media advertising budget - those are real missed opportunities to build their audience and drive sales that have just gone begging. You can't blame the RFL for that.
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Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:37 am  
bramleyrhino wrote:
The RFL really needs to be setting its marketing goals, and then insisting that the clubs deploy or follow an focused strategy to support that.


I couldn't agree more - the closest we got to a unified brand and marketing strategy was the 'Extraordinary Rugby' thing that happened a few years ago; it wasn't perfect, but it was effective, and a strong theme - and many clubs followed suit by producing their own personalised campaigns that mirrored it in look and style. But as is often the way when amateurs deliver this kind of thing, it fizzled out and hasn't been seen since.

I tend to agree that the RFL should take control of the brand and strategy, and issue SL clubs with a very strict set of guidelines about how to implement; charge them for it if need be, and pay for a very skilled marketeer to sit at the centre of the game - that could do wonders, given that there's so much to sell the game on - but clubs either can't or won't do it themselves.
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