Re: Fight for the Grand Final & A Relegation Battle : Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:25 am  

bramleyrhino wrote:

The argument that clubs can't sell hospitality for M8 games was a convenient excuse from clubs that just wanted the eights scrapped and to blame someone other than themselves for their poor commercial performance.

There are lots of reasons why clubs weren't selling tickets / hospitality for M8 games - the lack of 'notice' on who and when they're playing was way, way down the list.

You may be right that, it was just one of many reasons but, there is absolutely no doubt, particularly at the bottom of the table, that, knowing when you are playing and who you are playing against, makes it far more straight forward to promote games and sell "tickets".
The biggest issue though was perpetual uncertainty and the spectre of relegation, especially when wanting / trying to sign players.

Not quite the same for any of the bigger clubs that found themselves down there but, a huge problem for the smaller clubs.
Any player who believes they are of SL standard, is unlikely to want to sign for a club that may be relegated or, they will want a "premium" contract for doing so.

Re: Fight for the Grand Final & A Relegation Battle : Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:29 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You may be right that, it was just one of many reasons but, there is absolutely no doubt, particularly at the bottom of the table, that, knowing when you are playing and who you are playing against, makes it far more straight forward to promote games and sell "tickets".
The biggest issue though was perpetual uncertainty and the spectre of relegation, especially when wanting / trying to sign players.

Not quite the same for any of the bigger clubs that found themselves down there but, a huge problem for the smaller clubs.
Any player who believes they are of SL standard, is unlikely to want to sign for a club that may be relegated or, they will want a "premium" contract for doing so.

Then add clauses.

Re: Fight for the Grand Final & A Relegation Battle : Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:49 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You may be right that, it was just one of many reasons but, there is absolutely no doubt, particularly at the bottom of the table, that, knowing when you are playing and who you are playing against, makes it far more straight forward to promote games and sell "tickets".
The biggest issue though was perpetual uncertainty and the spectre of relegation, especially when wanting / trying to sign players.

Not quite the same for any of the bigger clubs that found themselves down there but, a huge problem for the smaller clubs.
Any player who believes they are of SL standard, is unlikely to want to sign for a club that may be relegated or, they will want a "premium" contract for doing so.

There are undoubtedly good reasons for getting rid of the eights (and for getting rid of relegation all together in my view), but that doesn't excuse clubs using the structure as a lightning rod for their commercial failings.

I've called out Carter in the past as he is someone who made this argument, yet between the fixtures becoming public and his first home game, there were 16 days. If you can't sell an event in 16 days. the short notice is the least of your problems.

Re: Fight for the Grand Final & A Relegation Battle : Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:11 am  

bramleyrhino wrote:

There are undoubtedly good reasons for getting rid of the eights (and for getting rid of relegation all together in my view), but that doesn't excuse clubs using the structure as a lightning rod for their commercial failings.

I've called out Carter in the past as he is someone who made this argument, yet between the fixtures becoming public and his first home game, there were 16 days. If you can't sell an event in 16 days. the short notice is the least of your problems.

Are you saying that Carter had suggested that this was his ONLY argument against the format.
The absolute uncertainty for half of the top flight, plus 4/5 clubs in The Championship is the reason that the poxy system was scrapped and NOT the "short sell" on games towards the end of the season.
Why you need to be the big man for paraphrasing Carter and "calling him out" I've no idea but, as long as it makes you feel important, crack on.

Re: Fight for the Grand Final & A Relegation Battle : Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:15 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You may be right that, it was just one of many reasons but, there is absolutely no doubt, particularly at the bottom of the table, that, knowing when you are playing and who you are playing against, makes it far more straight forward to promote games and sell "tickets".
The biggest issue though was perpetual uncertainty and the spectre of relegation, especially when wanting / trying to sign players.

Not quite the same for any of the bigger clubs that found themselves down there but, a huge problem for the smaller clubs.
Any player who believes they are of SL standard, is unlikely to want to sign for a club that may be relegated or, they will want a "premium" contract for doing so.

Aren’t contracts null and void if a club is relegated so therefore not a problem for any player to leave if they were to be relegated.

Re: Fight for the Grand Final & A Relegation Battle : Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:21 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Are you saying that Carter had suggested that this was his ONLY argument against the format.
The absolute uncertainty for half of the top flight, plus 4/5 clubs in The Championship is the reason that the poxy system was scrapped and NOT the "short sell" on games towards the end of the season.
Why you need to be the big man for paraphrasing Carter and "calling him out" I've no idea but, as long as it makes you feel important, crack on.

No, as I said in the rest of my post, there are lots of good reasons why the eights were scrapped.

But lets not overlook that it was a convenient excuse for clubs who wanted to deflect attention from their own poor commercial performance. Carter, whilst not alone in this approach, was very vocal in arguing that the M8s made it "impossible" (his word) to sell tickets and corporate packages for the latter end of the season. It's only right that such arguments are questioned and shown to be the nonsense that they are. I personally find it quite baffling that people are so happy to take the official club line without question.

Re: Fight for the Grand Final & A Relegation Battle : Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:25 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Aren’t contracts null and void if a club is relegated so therefore not a problem for any player to leave if they were to be relegated.

No problem for players leaving but, the window for getting a gig in SL will be somewhat smaller if you wait fo relegation to be decided, especially during the 3 x 8 period, when every club will have their player roster completed and this still doesnt get over the likelihood of players signing in the first place, if their intended new employers were in the "relegation" league.

Re: Fight for the Grand Final & A Relegation Battle : Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:48 pm  

Halifax1989 wrote:

Then add clauses.

Clauses such as?

Void if not in SL? Well, that just means you then have NO job as opposed to a Championship job, given you've left your old club, and they have likely covered your departure.

Re: Fight for the Grand Final & A Relegation Battle : Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:15 pm  

The irony is that, mathematically, apart from us or Leeds being 2 points adrift at the bottom, half of SL could be on 18pts in a couple of weeks with 7 games 2 go. Almost a middle 8s in its own right.

Re: Fight for the Grand Final & A Relegation Battle : Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:23 am  

Gallanteer wrote:

The irony is that, mathematically, apart from us or Leeds being 2 points adrift at the bottom, half of SL could be on 18pts in a couple of weeks with 7 games 2 go. Almost a middle 8s in its own right.

Indeed
Just like the original MPG Wakey v Cas, these things are far better when they happen organically and less frequently, which is precisely why that particular game was such a talking point.
Sport shouldn't be contrived, as this tends to make any build up seem false but, in RL, "we" keep searching for the silver bullet, when in reality we just need decent advertising and promotion.
If ever there was an example of this, just look at the Women's World Cup.
Last time around, hardly anyone was interested but, given huge exposure and 24/7 media coverage and suddenly "everyone" is interested and you have to say that whoever is driving the media has done a fantastic job.
I know that it's already huge but, the 6 nations is similar, with the BBC going into overdrive when it comes around.
The big question is just how "we" can receive the same kind of exposure and promotion of our sport.

With the "product" that we have, with some of the finest athletes on the planet, the game should be an easy sell ??