Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:26 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

Is it though? I'm not somebody who believes in taking the ideas of Adam Smith or Charles Darwin to illogical extremes. But there is surely something to be said for just letting the clubs get on with it, adapting as they see fit within a simple and basic framework, rather than top-down slightly Maoist 5-year plans.

The World changes and rigid long-term plans are likely to create unintended and undesirable consequences.

Super League is a fully pro sport. As much as some don't like it, it is a business.

Would you invest your money in a business which said 'we have no idea what were going to in the future, we have no plan or strategy, couldn't tell you where we want to be or how we are going to get there, but f@ck it, anything could happen so let's just wing it'?

Also we aren't just letting clubs get on with it are we, we still have salary caps, we still have quotas, and we need them because time after time after time after time clubs prove they will do what's best for them even if it is to the detriment of the game or even their own long term future.

It's why we have clubs arguing for a place in a league before they have a team, the facilities and the money to compete in that league

[Mild Rover]

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:24 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Super League is a fully pro sport. As much as some don't like it, it is a business.

Would you invest your money in a business which said 'we have no idea what were going to in the future, we have no plan or strategy, couldn't tell you where we want to be or how we are going to get there, but f@ck it, anything could happen so let's just wing it'?

Also we aren't just letting clubs get on with it are we, we still have salary caps, we still have quotas, and we need them because time after time after time after time clubs prove they will do what's best for them even if it is to the detriment of the game or even their own long term future.

It's why we have clubs arguing for a place in a league before they have a team, the facilities and the money to compete in that league

Isn't the bit I've highlighted one of the great joys of sport? If we know what's going to happen, what's the point?

Perhaps the RFL isn't like a business - maybe it should actually be more like a regulatory body. Like Ofcom rather than BT. I want my club to have goals and plans, there's a case (at very least) for the RFL to be offering a blank canvas rather than a paint by numbers picture.

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:30 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

Isn't the bit I've highlighted one of the great joys of sport? If we know what's going to happen, what's the point?

Perhaps the RFL isn't like a business - maybe it should actually be more like a regulatory body. Like Ofcom rather than BT. I want my club to have goals and plans, there's a case (at very least) for the RFL to be offering a blank canvas rather than a paint by numbers picture.

Come on, be realistic. Just hoping for the best is not good enough

I don't think you would be arguing that the fact 'anything can happen' is one of the great joys of sport if the 'anything' that did happen was a club going bust, the game reverting to semi-pro and the big boys moving over to union.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:47 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Come on, be realistic. Just hoping for the best is not good enough

I don't think you would be arguing that the fact 'anything can happen' is one of the great joys of sport if the 'anything' that did happen was a club going bust, the game reverting to semi-pro and the big boys moving over to union.

But you're assuming a negative outcome of one approach. You could have a plan and cack could happen still. Look at the planned economies of the Soviet bloc. The de-regulated Western Capitalist economies had a big shock a few years ago too, of course.
There's no way of guaranteeing a positive outcome. What you can do is have a clear set of principles and rules, that you stick to, so that everybody knows where they stand, for better or worse.

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:58 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

But you're assuming a negative outcome of one approach. You could have a plan and cack could happen still. Look at the planned economies of the Soviet bloc. The de-regulated Western Capitalist economies had a big shock a few years ago too, of course.
There's no way of guaranteeing a positive outcome. What you can do is have a clear set of principles and rules, that you stick to, so that everybody knows where they stand, for better or worse.

There is no way of guaranteeing a positive outcome. You do give yourself a much better chance however by having a good, detailed plan and strategy as opposed to throwing it all in the air and letting the chips fall where they may.

The most likely outcome of having no plan at all, is not the one you want.

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:17 am  

I am confident that as a club they will have a plan for any eventual outcome. They are currently planning to inplement a full time squad for next year in anticipation of beig able to make the jump.

Clubs don't really need to advertise their '5-year plan' to the average fan. I think they have shown they can plan for superleague with limited funds. I sure 1.3 million of sky money (I think it is that) will help with other costs and player funding.

To inform your response about dwindling crowds outside magic superleague land, fill your boots:
Championship 2012
Fev 2283
Fax 2222
Leigh 1772
Sheff 1178
Dewsbury 1134
Keighley 1064
Batley 1013
York 812
Swinton 760
Hunslet 536

Championship 2013

Featherstone - 2,416
Halifax - 1,778
Leigh - 1,571
Sheffield - 998
Barrow - 990
Dewsbury - 908
Workington - 841
Batley - 796
Haven - 772
York - 740
Keighley - 735
Doncaster - 724
Swinton - 715
Hunslet - 544

[Mild Rover]

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:18 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

There is no way of guaranteeing a positive outcome. You do give yourself a much better chance however by having a good, detailed plan and strategy as opposed to throwing it all in the air and letting the chips fall where they may.

The most likely outcome of having no plan at all, is not the one you want.

Ahhhh, but 'good' is subjective so very difficult to judge. I would argue that a bad plan is worse than no plan. If you move the responsibility for planning to clubs, then if their plans are poor (and you're not wedded to a particular vision of who should be in/out), they can be allowed to fail, and those with better plans replace them. If the RFL and the sport as a whole fails, that is a bigger problem. The more comprehensive the remit of the governing body, the greater the risk of spectacular fail.

I'm not inherently against strong and heavily centralised governance, like they have in American sports, for example, more frustrated that we do it in a half-baked way. Do it properly or not at all, is what I'm trying to say.

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:20 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

Ahhhh, but 'good' is subjective so very difficult to judge. I would argue that a bad plan is worse than no plan. If you move the responsibility for planning to clubs, then if their plans are poor (and you're not wedded to a particular vision of who should be in/out), they can be allowed to fail, and those with better plans replace them. If the RFL and the sport as a whole fails, that is a bigger problem. The more comprehensive the remit of the governing body, the greater the risk of spectacular fail.

I'm not inherently against strong and heavily centralised governance, like they have in American sports, for example, more frustrated that we do it in a half-baked way. Do it properly or not at all, is what I'm trying to say.

Agreed.

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:21 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

Ahhhh, but 'good' is subjective so very difficult to judge. I would argue that a bad plan is worse than no plan. If you move the responsibility for planning to clubs, then if their plans are poor (and you're not wedded to a particular vision of who should be in/out), they can be allowed to fail, and those with better plans replace them. If the RFL and the sport as a whole fails, that is a bigger problem. The more comprehensive the remit of the governing body, the greater the risk of spectacular fail.

I'm not inherently against strong and heavily centralised governance, like they have in American sports, for example, more frustrated that we do it in a half-baked way. Do it properly or not at all, is what I'm trying to say.

i would argue that having no plan is just the same as having a very very poor one.

And letting these clubs go to the wall to be replaced by better clubs is dependent on us having those better clubs in reserve. We dont

Re: Fev Rovers looking promising : Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:37 am  

It's happening Smokey, get used to the idea. As for facilities what can Headingley offer me that I can't get at Post office Rd? All I and the average fan want to do is watch a game of RL and maybe have a pint to discuss afterwards. Your arguments are ridiculous, the people who run Featherstone Rovers aren't stupid. They're well aware of what can and can't be achieved. Give it a rest.

Three years from now Rovers will be kicking the Loiners' butts.