Re: Wane out : Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:48 am  

Our squad was worse than 2017 overall, so I didn't expect us to win the tournament, or hold our own against the Aussies, but we did have an easier draw this time and crucially, we did not improve as the tournament went on, as we did on the previous 2 tournaments.

Wayne Bennett got the best world cup performances in my time watching the game, so perhaps it is a little unfair to compare the last world cup with this one, but no coach has taken the team from 1 world cup to the next, and there is nothing I can see from Wane, that would justify him being the exception.

The lack of attacking discipline, the drop offs in defence, the players we were carrying were clear in the 4 previous games, so when we came up against a better teams they were exploited, and I don't want a coach who picks players no matter what their form, or who won't motivate a squad to grow and improve performances from week to week.

Clear out the whole coaching roster, and start again.

Re: Wane out : Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:33 am  

I can't decide if he did a good job or a terrible one. Ultimately we looked superb in games against weak opposition, then capitulated when we faced the first half decent side we had to play. Any coach would have got us to that point. He is a good coach who will motivate his players and get something near the best out of them. But, he also hamstrung himself picking players who simply had no right being selected. There were several of those and maybe only Hill and Williams justified their selections. The likes of Cooper, Bateman and particularly McIllorum were poor/illogical choices and were poor in the tournament as well.

You'll never get away from that with Wane though. He's Wigan to the core and he sees playing for Wigan or being in the Wigan youth system as being superior than form elsewhere. He's always going to pick the likes of Cooper, McIllorum and Tomkins, even though their performances this season didn't warrant it.

For me he was too safe in his selections. Tomkins has been a fantastic player over the years, but he's not in form and he's lost a lot of his sharpness. Wane should have been more bold and picked Welsby at fullback, his best position. That would have allowed Williams to have an organising half with him. That was particularly necessary because of the ridiculous selection of McIllorum. He was terrible in the World Cup and particularly against Samoa. Lazy distribution, no organisation or planning from acting half and he can't tackle, he must have set a record for missed tackles against Samoa. Leeming or Ackers would have been far better, or even Clarke or McShane with one of those from the bench.

I'm not sure what the international calendar involves going forward now, they've probably not even thought about it. But they need to get rid of the old guard now and focus on younger players. The likes of Tomkins, Hall, McIllorum, Hill, Bateman and Cooper shouldn't be playing for England again.

I'm just not sure if Wane can do that, I'm not sure he's strong enough to do it. He'll probably replace McIllorum with Sam Powell when he retires.

Re: Wane out : Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:41 pm  

Radders the world cup finalist in!

Re: Wane out : Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:40 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Before the tournament everyone was writing off England. We lost by the smallest of margins due to some lapses of concentration and unforced errors. If we played Samoa again next week we'd have a great chance of winning. Lots of knee jerk reactions amongst supporters who think it's all a disaster. It's disappointing but not the end of the world.

Absolutely. Samoa were supposed to hammer us in game one and were the bookies favourites.

Re: Wane out : Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:15 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

I can't decide if he did a good job or a terrible one. Ultimately we looked superb in games against weak opposition, then capitulated when we faced the first half decent side we had to play. Any coach would have got us to that point. He is a good coach who will motivate his players and get something near the best out of them. But, he also hamstrung himself picking players who simply had no right being selected. There were several of those and maybe only Hill and Williams justified their selections. The likes of Cooper, Bateman and particularly McIllorum were poor/illogical choices and were poor in the tournament as well.

You'll never get away from that with Wane though. He's Wigan to the core and he sees playing for Wigan or being in the Wigan youth system as being superior than form elsewhere. He's always going to pick the likes of Cooper, McIllorum and Tomkins, even though their performances this season didn't warrant it.

For me he was too safe in his selections. Tomkins has been a fantastic player over the years, but he's not in form and he's lost a lot of his sharpness. Wane should have been more bold and picked Welsby at fullback, his best position. That would have allowed Williams to have an organising half with him. That was particularly necessary because of the ridiculous selection of McIllorum. He was terrible in the World Cup and particularly against Samoa. Lazy distribution, no organisation or planning from acting half and he can't tackle, he must have set a record for missed tackles against Samoa. Leeming or Ackers would have been far better, or even Clarke or McShane with one of those from the bench.

I'm not sure what the international calendar involves going forward now, they've probably not even thought about it. But they need to get rid of the old guard now and focus on younger players. The likes of Tomkins, Hall, McIllorum, Hill, Bateman and Cooper shouldn't be playing for England again.

I'm just not sure if Wane can do that, I'm not sure he's strong enough to do it. He'll probably replace McIllorum with Sam Powell when he retires.

All of the team did not perform not just the Wigan connected players.
Wane picked the team as he saw fit they didnt perform,Wane didnt drop the ball or give a forward pass or a interception pass or miss tackles the players did that.
Stop blaming individual players it was a team effort.

Re: Wane out : Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:54 pm  

Jason65 wrote:

All of the team did not perform not just the Wigan connected players.
Wane picked the team as he saw fit they didnt perform,Wane didnt drop the ball or give a forward pass or a interception pass or miss tackles the players did that.
Stop blaming individual players it was a team effort.

So if they gave the job to Paul Wellens next year and he went with Aaron Smith at hooker, no fans from other clubs would be calling that out? I suspect they would. That how bizarre a selection McIllorum was.

Wane picked those players, so he's got to take the criticism when it doesn't work out. He took a risk on too many players out of form. Tomkins, Hall, Hill, Cooper, Bateman, McIllorum, Williams, Watkins (As a centre) etc. How many of those were a success? Hill, in that he was better than he usually is in SL and Williams who was excellent. The rest weren't great and didn't justify their selections over better/more in form players.

The Wigan-ness of the squad he picked was always going to be an issue given he's a current employee of Wigan. That was the first mistake, it's not a job you can do well. If he doesn't pick Wigan players for an international he'd be accused of protecting them from injuries, if he does he's accused of bias. He chose to double down on that inevitability and pick players like McIllorum and Cooper and the rest listed above, just bizarre selections.

Re: Wane out : Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:41 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Before the tournament everyone was writing off England. We lost by the smallest of margins due to some lapses of concentration and unforced errors. If we played Samoa again next week we'd have a great chance of winning. Lots of knee jerk reactions amongst supporters who think it's all a disaster. It's disappointing but not the end of the world.

The final score was close but we were second best from kick off. If Samoa had a better goal kicker and converted their tries we wouldn't have been in a position to square it up.

Re: Wane out : Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:59 pm  

Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza wrote:

The final score was close but we were second best from kick off. If Samoa had a better goal kicker and converted their tries we wouldn't have been in a position to square it up.

Conversely, if Makinson, Watkins and Young had scored the tries that they should have done, it would have been an England win.

Re: Wane out : Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:24 pm  

I like how Cooper is being touted as only selected because he plays for Wigan. He was already in the squad long before Wigan signed him.

Re: Wane out : Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:35 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

So if they gave the job to Paul Wellens next year and he went with Aaron Smith at hooker, no fans from other clubs would be calling that out? I suspect they would. That how bizarre a selection McIllorum was.

Wane picked those players, so he's got to take the criticism when it doesn't work out. He took a risk on too many players out of form. Tomkins, Hall, Hill, Cooper, Bateman, McIllorum, Williams, Watkins (As a centre) etc. How many of those were a success? Hill, in that he was better than he usually is in SL and Williams who was excellent. The rest weren't great and didn't justify their selections over better/more in form players.

The Wigan-ness of the squad he picked was always going to be an issue given he's a current employee of Wigan. That was the first mistake, it's not a job you can do well. If he doesn't pick Wigan players for an international he'd be accused of protecting them from injuries, if he does he's accused of bias. He chose to double down on that inevitability and pick players like McIllorum and Cooper and the rest listed above, just bizarre selections.

Was Welsby a success was Whitehead a success was Tomkins a success was Radley a success was Watkins a success was Young a success they all made mistakes which cost in one way or the other,not all Wigan connected well maybe Tomkins and Welsby.Uptil that game we was playing and winning well so no I dont think it is bizarre the only thing that is bizarre is people like you trying to blame anyone that is Wigan connected unless they play for St Helens.
On a side note if Wellens was the coach and he picked Smith I would bow down to his greater knowledge and if we lost I would not look at playing the blame game.
We lost,you are boring get over it and support the national team.