Re: Dream Team : Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:32 pm  

shinymcshine241 wrote:

Looking at the MoS points and SL Official Stats, the 4 Saints players mentioned by the OP don't all appear on either list with any note - with Paasi and Hurrell in particular not doing well in either charts (coming far behind Makinson and Welsby).

But I guess that's just down to bizarre comparisons and baselines, rather than subjective opinion ?

Paasi has been our best prop by an absolute distance. He changes the game when he comes on and he's carried us this year. He's rescued several games from a losing position with his contribution, just turning the game on it's head and reversing the momentum. You don't need the absolutely pathetic Man of Steel points system to tell you that. Man of Steel is an embarassment.

Re: Dream Team : Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:49 pm  

So ignoring the stats you don't like (MoS) what about the SL player stats, where other Saints players are returning figures for tackles, carries, metres gained, try assists, etc much greater than Paasi (who does, I'll grant you, come in at no.3 for offloads - which I guess you will argue are all those gamebreakers, but then was also wholly dependent upon his support runners).

So does your subjective opinion have a greater weight (or repeatability) than either fact based stats, and the opinions of a panel of RL experts?

Sure you're entitled to your thoughts, but trying to singlehandedly undermine both stat based rankings and the views other RL experts is probably even beyond you.

If you fundementally disagree with the Dream Team and MoS just ignore it, no need to get frustrated by it, and just go with your own club's EoS awards (or not).

Re: Dream Team : Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:12 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

Probably chosen as generic half backs and not at 6. Can't think of a decent 7 this season who has made a significant impact but the dream list looks as though Croft is at 7.

Welsby will also probably be favourite to get Young Player of the Year as well, he will probably be at his peak with Dodd in 2 or 3 years and will possibly be the future England Half Backs.

But he hasn't played HB all season bar the odd game so should be judged as a FB. Otherwise you could pick players anywhere.

Re: Dream Team : Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:51 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

But he hasn't played HB all season bar the odd game so should be judged as a FB. Otherwise you could pick players anywhere.

He’s played quite a lot at half back, he’s had loads of games playing a hybrid back role by going to full back when defending and half back when attacking. It was around the time Lomax tore his bicep and couldn’t pass the ball properly for about 3 or 4 games.

Re: Dream Team : Tue Sep 06, 2022 5:51 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

He’s played quite a lot at half back, he’s had loads of games playing a hybrid back role by going to full back when defending and half back when attacking. It was around the time Lomax tore his bicep and couldn’t pass the ball properly for about 3 or 4 games.

Was he named at 1 or 6?

Point being, like the OP said what is it meant to be? It clearly isn't the best player in each position as we can move players around and there are some players in who have had good seasons by their standard but again haven't been the best in their position or the one they've been named in.

Re: Dream Team : Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:00 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

Was he named at 1 or 6?

Number named didn’t matter it was were he played, Roby was the same played a few games at half back. Probably the dream team selectors were aware of that situation same for Croft didn’t play many games at scrum half but they listed him at 7th -placement in the list.

Maybe you should ask the selectors because you won’t get the exact reasoning on here.

Re: Dream Team : Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:55 pm  

Should have been Saints players 1-13, I think we can all agree on that.

Re: Dream Team : Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:11 am  

DallasMead2 wrote:

Should have been Saints players 1-13, I think we can all agree on that.

I don't think anyone would suggest that. I'd love to know what the team is supposed to represent though. Is it the best player in each position or is it the best players relative to their own baseline? I.e Harry Smith at Wigan. Very poor last season, decent year this, should he be in contention this year? Or should he not because he's not actually in the top 2/3 in his position in Super League in terms of ability? If someone like Sam Powell has a much better season next year, do you include him over Roby and Leeming who would still be better than him and playing to a higher standard, but who wouldn't stand out or get MoS points as they were just doing their usual thing?

Re: Dream Team : Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:32 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

I don't think anyone would suggest that. I'd love to know what the team is supposed to represent though. Is it the best player in each position or is it the best players relative to their own baseline? I.e Harry Smith at Wigan. Very poor last season, decent year this, should he be in contention this year? Or should he not because he's not actually in the top 2/3 in his position in Super League in terms of ability? If someone like Sam Powell has a much better season next year, do you include him over Roby and Leeming who would still be better than him and playing to a higher standard, but who wouldn't stand out or get MoS points as they were just doing their usual thing?

I always believed it to be the best player in each position based on that season. So if a Wigan player somehow has a better season than his equivalent in the Saints team (would never happen obviously) then he would get picked despite him being a plodder rather than world class.

Looking at that side it clearly isn't picked that way.

Re: Dream Team : Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:50 pm  

No one takes it seriously anyway. Players get picked because they stand out in poor teams. Can you imagine the premier league dream team full of players from Aston Villa, Brighton and Brentford? No, neither can I