Re: Championship/league 1 : Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:18 am  

LifeLongHKRFan wrote:

IMO atm there are possibly 16 clubs who could sustain an SL team/Franchise. So here is my 2 pence worth.

2 Leagues of 8 (Pool A & Pool B) Randomly drawn or seeded pre season.
Play each team twice in your pool then each team from opposing pool once. This would give us 21 regular league games.
Top 4 from each pool go into the playoffs.
Challenge cup to have a league stage.
If you want P&R then bottom 2 from each pool to play top 4 from championship in a similar format to what we have now in the middle 8s.

The only issue here is that we would need more funding for the extra 4 teams.

Shoot me down if you will but that's just my opinion.

IF there are only 16 clubs that could sustain a SL franchise, why have the play off with clubs from the Championship who, by your own definition, aren't sustainable in SL ?

We either keep P/R or revert to some kind of Franchise/Licence system, without P/R, unless a club goes into admin/goes pop, which should be automatic demotion.

One of the aspects of the previous system is that new clubs could have been added "when they were ready" (such as Leigh) but, this was never done and instead, we went for the hair brained scheme we have now.

Re: Championship/league 1 : Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:23 am  

GIANT DAZ wrote:

I've already got bored of watching the Toronto games on Premier, they are simply no contests, and are becoming boring and listening to Woods/Noble cream themselves over how good they have been is almost like they are suggesting both teams are equal.

I know it's not against the rules but i find it a bit against the fairness of the game when 1 team can sign many players so much better than the league they are in.
They've added Ryan Bailey and Sean Penkywicz to their squad this week, they don't need them, why couldn't they find a couple of Canadian youngsters to add to their squad and develop rather than sign another 2 experienced players to make their miles better than anyone else squad even more miles better?

Maybe it's just me but i fail to see how this is benefiting the game.

This season is a bit of a one off, when they are in the Championship I think they will be a lot more competitive with upper teams at least. The issue of relegated sides being all conquering in Championship is a tough one but to be fair, the system allows a top 4 to have a chance - 1 up 1 down would be worse tbh.

Re: Championship/league 1 : Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:29 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

IF there are only 16 clubs that could sustain a SL franchise, why have the play off with clubs from the Championship who, by your own definition, aren't sustainable in SL ?

We either keep P/R or revert to some kind of Franchise/Licence system, without P/R, unless a club goes into admin/goes pop, which should be automatic demotion.

One of the aspects of the previous system is that new clubs could have been added "when they were ready" (such as Leigh) but, this was never done and instead, we went for the hair brained scheme we have now.

I put the P&R in there to appease the clubs who may one day be able to build and develop a club who are good enough to be in SL. While this is not the case if there were 16 SL clubs, it wouldn't totally shut the door.

Re: Championship/league 1 : Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:33 am  

LifeLongHKRFan wrote:

I put the P&R in there to appease the clubs who may one day be able to build and develop a club who are good enough to be in SL. While this is not the case if there were 16 SL clubs, it wouldn't totally shut the door.

If you go for the franchise model, by definition, you cant have PR.
You can however, give a licence to a new/additional club or rescind the licence of any failing club.

The main benefit of the old system was the ability to develop young players in a "protected" league and this will always be more difficult when league status is on the line.

Re: Championship/league 1 : Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:36 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

If you go for the franchise model, by definition, you cant have PR.
You can however, give a licence to a new/additional club or rescind the licence of any failing club.

The main benefit of the old system was the ability to develop young players in a "protected" league and this will always be more difficult when league status is on the line.

You can have P&R and licensing. A license can be awarded based upon performance on the field(along with other factors if required).

Re: Championship/league 1 : Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:11 pm  

LifeLongHKRFan wrote:

You can have P&R and licensing. A license can be awarded based upon performance on the field(along with other factors if required).

Surely the reasoning behind licensing was to give stability and allow the game to expand, originally with Paris and then with Catalan.
If these clubs are up for relegation, then, we may as well have 1 up/ 1 down etc.
This can be done with minimum criteria but, why would you need to grant a licence, we may as well stay as we are, which doesnt solve the problem of allowing new high spending clubs joining at the bottom of the pile and thrashing all and sundry, until they are able to gain promotion (twice).
Toronto, would have been better served, joining a "protected" top flight, just as Catalan did and developing from there, which may allow the game to properly establish itself in North America.
As others have said, what is taking place now, in league 1, isn't doing anyone any good whatsoever.
Even the Toronto fans wont want to shell out their hard earned dollar to watch a procession every other week.
Instead of "spreading the word", it's sending the game backwards.

Re: Championship/league 1 : Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:41 pm  

LifeLongHKRFan wrote:

IMO atm there are possibly 16 clubs who could sustain an SL team/Franchise. So here is my 2 pence worth.

2 Leagues of 8 (Pool A & Pool B) Randomly drawn or seeded pre season.
Play each team twice in your pool then each team from opposing pool once. This would give us 21 regular league games.
Top 4 from each pool go into the playoffs.
Challenge cup to have a league stage.
If you want P&R then bottom 2 from each pool to play top 4 from championship in a similar format to what we have now in the middle 8s.

The only issue here is that we would need more funding for the extra 4 teams.

Shoot me down if you will but that's just my opinion.

I like this idea.

Re: Championship/league 1 : Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:55 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Surely the reasoning behind licensing was to give stability and allow the game to expand, originally with Paris and then with Catalan.
If these clubs are up for relegation, then, we may as well have 1 up/ 1 down etc.
This can be done with minimum criteria but, why would you need to grant a licence, we may as well stay as we are, which doesnt solve the problem of allowing new high spending clubs joining at the bottom of the pile and thrashing all and sundry, until they are able to gain promotion (twice).
Toronto, would have been better served, joining a "protected" top flight, just as Catalan did and developing from there, which may allow the game to properly establish itself in North America.
As others have said, what is taking place now, in league 1, isn't doing anyone any good whatsoever.
Even the Toronto fans wont want to shell out their hard earned dollar to watch a procession every other week.
Instead of "spreading the word", it's sending the game backwards.

With the system I suggested, you get all teams/clubs who are capable of being an SL side in SL whilst not totally closing the door on the Championship sides. Granted not many of the rest of the Championship clubs could get promoted or meet criteria, but it doesn't close the door on any that could eventually meet the criteria.

What is taking place in the 2 leagues outside of SL isn't great. I go watch my team every week but I can't get enthused about seeing them beat a part time team by 50 points. Granted, we got ourselves in to this situation but by having clubs like Toronto, Hull KR, Toulouse etc. in the lower leagues trouncing teams doesn't help the game attract new support. It only serves to help the RFL say that the current format is working when all they are doing is holding back the game. If all or most of the championship teams were as competitive with each other as most of SL are, then I can see a reason for the current format but atm its pointless.

Also, Toronto are looking to have 10000 season ticket holders. How many of those will they have if they can't get into SL within say 4-5 years? All the current enthusiasm for RL there could wane and we have then lost all those potential supporters of the game. The same could be said for Bradford or Toulouse. And I know that Hull KR won't get the same amount of support if they can't get back into SL this year.

By getting all SL ready clubs into a revised SL, should help those clubs and the game keep hold of that support.

This is all my opinion of course.

Re: Championship/league 1 : Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:56 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Are they even competitions anymore?

Hull KR are currently 9 from 9 with an average score of 42-14, Toronto are 4 from 4 with an average score of 58-10

Last season saw Leigh win 21 of 23 with an average score of 39-18, the season before they were 21 of 23 with an average score of 43-15, the season before they were 25 of 26 with an average of 40-15.
Last season saw Toulouse win 13 of 14 with an average score of 51-14

since the return of P+R was announced in 2014, the top team in the championship has a record of 57 wins in 62 games. Since we started putting international sides in to League 1, they have a record of 17 wins in 18 games.

Under the new system meanwhile the bottom of the leagues has seen:
In the championship
Doncaster 2pts
Whitehave 11pts
Dewsbury 0pts

in League 1
South wales 2pts
Oxford, South Wales and Hemel 2pts
South Wales, Coventry, Hemel opts.

If the current structure continues (which i hope it doesnt) then the lower leagues will collapse as interest wanes in competitions where the winner is known before it even starts and some clubs simply descend to punching bags and training runs.

But in the licensing format, Featherstone were league leaders from 2010 - 2014, so what;s your point about the new league structure?

Re: Championship/league 1 : Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:01 pm  

LifeLongHKRFan wrote:

I put the P&R in there to appease the clubs who may one day be able to build and develop a club who are good enough to be in SL. While this is not the case if there were 16 SL clubs, it wouldn't totally shut the door.

Why not just let them in when they are ready. Remove them if they arent.

The only way to square expansion and p+r would be to have conferences. Some for licensed clubs not at risk of relegation, some unlicensed clubs who didn't meet the criteria who were at risk of relegation.