: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:57 am  

saints35 bulls0 wrote:

this might shed some light on Warrington's attempts to flog Gleeson to get some cash in.

Warrington have been using this sytem for a long time. The difference between Warrington and one other club is they declare it to the RFL salary cap auditor.

PS

I'm not sure how the clubs are liable for any payments. I thought every player was self-employed and as such the club had no tax liabilities.

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:57 am  

rover49 wrote:

Are image right calculated in the salary cap ?

I suppose you could argue that a players salary is for his training and 80 mins (or less!!) on a match day, while his image rights are a seperate issue. If a club does not pay for image rights, could players get together and sell their own merchanise as a seperate entity to the work they do for the club.

I am sure as one loophole is closed some clever 2@ will find another, the MP's do.

Yes.

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:42 pm  

getdownmonkeyman wrote:

Warrington have been using this sytem for a long time. The difference between Warrington and one other club is they declare it to the RFL salary cap auditor.

PS

I'm not sure how the clubs are liable for any payments. I thought every player was self-employed and as such the club had no tax liabilities.

You cannot be deemed to be self employed with one principle employer such as a rugby club. All players are contracted employees of their particular club

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:49 pm  

getdownmonkeyman wrote:

I'm not sure how the clubs are liable for any payments. I thought every player was self-employed and as such the club had no tax liabilities.

As ER points out, players are salaried employees of their clubs. Presumably if HMRC (not the "Inland Revenue", good to see the Grauniad up to date as ever) believe the payments should have made after deduction of UK tax, then the clubs as employers are liable for the lost PAYE and National Insurance plus interest and potentially penalties?

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:47 pm  

The Chronicler of Chiswic wrote:

My bet is CC, Catalans (they wouldn't be involved with British tax authorities anyway), Salford and possibly Wakey or Quins. We shall see!

As far as I am aware Wales is subject to the same tax laws as the rest of th UK, From what I read non of the clubs have broken any rules Tax or RL salary cap, its just that the rules have been chalanged by HMRC to screw yet more cash out of people & it would not suprise me if they try & make it retrospective they seem to be a law unto themself. They did it ten years ago when they came after clubs for tax & national insurance that overseas (self employed)players had not paid & returned home owing cash, My company got stung as they had to pay up because HMRC were to lazy to go after contracters who have disapeared abroad. I have dealings with them a lot & I just wonder if realise who they are supposed to work for as the are not doing Britsh companys any good at all & there just seems no way to challenge them.

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:18 pm  

Wouldn't this be against "the spirit of the cap"?

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:15 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Wouldn't this be against "the spirit of the cap"?

Thats class

: Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:27 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Wouldn't this be against "the spirit of the cap"?

Tax avoidance, I don't see how.

More pertrinent, is the impact on current contracts that utilise this. If contracts have to add PAYE into them,, surely that will be applicable to th cap?

: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:23 am  

getdownmonkeyman wrote:

Tax avoidance, I don't see how.

Avoidance - or evasion?

If it's evasion, then there will be twitchy bum time at a lot of SL clubs given how far back HMRC can go to recover underpaid PAYE and NIC.

: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:30 am  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Avoidance - or evasion?

If it's evasion, then there will be twitchy bum time at a lot of SL clubs given how far back HMRC can go to recover underpaid PAYE and NIC.

Evasion is a tad strong for me. How can it be evasion? It was a loophole that has been taken advantage of, it was as if they have deliberately not paid tax, now that would be my definition of evasion.

I can't see this being unique to RL either, so I would imagine there are intreresting times ahead generally.