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Re: Mark Sawyer Interview Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:45 pm  

M@islebugs wrote:
M@islebugs Free-scoring winger
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 2:31 pm
Posts: 1772
Dunkirk Spirit wrote:
Without the help from the RFL, regarding them buying an overpriced Odsal lease, I’m sure you and many Bulls fans, would probably agree, your club in all probability, would no longer exist. All rugby league fans, and clubs contribute to RFL funds. Do you believe that any club should receive preferential treatment at any time, let alone at such a time as now, when the RFL have borrowed £28.million, to survive the next few years. I think the possibility of some clubs not surviving is real. The RFL funds don’t belong just to Bradford Bulls, to prop up Odsal Stadium.


I think it would be very difficult to make any genuine case that Wakefield Trinity contribute to the RFL.
Re: Mark Sawyer Interview Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:14 pm  
Dunkirk Spirit User avatar
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:43 am
Posts: 1483
Location: Horbury, a small town in Wakefield
M@islebugs wrote:
I think it would be very difficult to make any genuine case that Wakefield Trinity contribute to the RFL.

They pay all the levies required by the RFL. These levies are paid by all clubs RFL/SL, and provide funding of Match officials, staff/management at RFL, and other groups within the game. Also, towards the refurbishment/upkeep of Odsal Stadium. So, therefore Trinity do make a Contribution to the RFL, as do every other member club does.
Re: Mark Sawyer Interview Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:59 pm  
Stockwell & Smales Strong-running second rower
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To the best of my knowledge there has been no refurbishment or maintenance of Odsal since we left apart from cutting the grsss.
Re: Mark Sawyer Interview Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:02 pm  

M@islebugs wrote:
M@islebugs Free-scoring winger
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 2:31 pm
Posts: 1772
If you add the share of TV money which Trinity' receive whilst bringing nothing to the competition then they're a huge net minus.
Re: Mark Sawyer Interview Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:55 pm  

Highlander wrote:
Highlander Bronze RLFANS Member
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Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:25 pm
Posts: 2708
Location: Bradford
Dunkirk Spirit wrote:
If the RFL are using money that belongs to member clubs, have those clubs been asked to approve those funds being used to improve the safety/facilities of Odsal Stadium?
Thanks

Yes
You're welcome.

I like these easy ones
Pollsters doing Excellent job - say recent polls.
Re: Mark Sawyer Interview Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:19 pm  

Highlander wrote:
Highlander Bronze RLFANS Member
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Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:25 pm
Posts: 2708
Location: Bradford
Dunkirk Spirit wrote:
Without the help from the RFL,.
These ones are trickier. They've bought the RFL fake news that was spun at the time. There was only one point where the RFL could legitimately claim (but still there's an argument against) to have helped and that was when Hood went cap in hand for an end of season loan to help with cash flow. The RFL asked for it to be a secret loan.
Dunkirk Spirit wrote:
regarding them buying an overpriced Odsal lease, .
Source for the price? This has bugged me for ages as I can remember reading at the last £60m Odsal development that all these other fans would come on and cry "how much are Bradford putting in" and the quote was that Bradford were putting in the head lease which was valued at £7m. But I can't find the article. Then the banking crash happened etc, etc. But, The RFL found themselves unexpectedly in a hole, in that they had a large unsecured loan with the Bulls and the only asset Bulls had was the lease. Cleverly they swapped their unsecured loan and some cash for an asset. Now then, you claim this was the RFL helping us out, I would say the RFL took advantage of a distressed member club and asset stripped that club. Obviously we have a difference of opinion re "help".
Dunkirk Spirit wrote:
I’m sure you and many Bulls fans, would probably agree, your club in all probability, would no longer exist..
On the contrary, if we had gone into admin immediately, without the rfl loan, we would have been a cash poor, asset rich company/club and there is a good chance we would have attracted a much better quality of investor instead of the RFL approved rubbish we did get....
Dunkirk Spirit wrote:
All rugby league fans, and clubs contribute to RFL funds. .
Correct
Dunkirk Spirit wrote:
Do you believe that any club should receive preferential treatment at any time, let alone at such a time as now, when the RFL have borrowed £28.million, to survive the next few years. .
No. And the Bulls aren't so I'm not sure of the point of your waffle.
Dunkirk Spirit wrote:
I think the possibility of some clubs not surviving is real. The RFL funds don’t belong just to Bradford Bulls, to prop up Odsal Stadium.
Correct - the RFL have contractual responsibilities to the freeholder - Bradford Council. I don't know what those are but I will assume the RFL are meeting their contractual obligations.

FA mode off...
Pollsters doing Excellent job - say recent polls.
Re: Mark Sawyer Interview Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:17 pm  
Dunkirk Spirit User avatar
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Location: Horbury, a small town in Wakefield
Note to Highlander
Enjoy the read.
REVEALED: The true scale of debts that sent Bradford Bulls into administration
NEARLY £2 million is owed to creditors by the former owners of Bradford Bulls, it has been revealed.

The statement of administrator’s proposals, submitted to Companies House, reveals the full extent of the financial trouble that Bradford Bulls Northern Ltd and its owners Marc Green and his wife Jane were in before the business was put in administration in November 2016 and ceased trading earlier this month.

The papers show that the club had an operating loss of more than £1.6 million between November 2013 and November 2015.

And the administrators’ report now reveals that total estimated debts of the company stand at £2,210,408 which comprises the total sums owed to creditors, administration fees and legal costs.

The creditors include HM Revenue and Customs, which is owed more than £400,000; kit manufacturers ISC owed £215,717.76; the Rugby Football League, owed more than £66,000, and Bradford Council which is owed almost £30,000.

The biggest single creditors are Mr and Mrs Green who are owed £750,000 in directors loans. They have agreed to remove their status as secured creditors in the interests of creditors as a whole, according to the report.

The estimated administrator’s fee is £233,190.40.

In the report, joint administrator Gary Pettit, of PBC Business Recovery & Insolvency Ltd, spells out the process that administrators went through while trying to sell the club, and their plans moving forward for the liquidation of Bradford Bulls Northern Ltd.

It states that initially 13 parties made expressions of interest in buying the club, with eight signing non-disclosure agreements.

Core financial information was provided to the parties, and four offers were submitted to the administrator, with two being rejected as they did not provide a better return than a liquidation scenario, and the final two bids were conditional upon securing the freehold to Odsal Stadium, which is owned by Bradford Council.

One consortium submitted a bid which was judged as inadequate on the same grounds as the previous two offers, and the last bidder withdrew interest in late December.

The company has ceased trading but is still officially to be liquidated and talks have continued with seven parties interested in acquiring some or all of the business assets.

Mr Pettit states in the report that the Rugby Football League’s action to start a new club in Bradford was “unauthorised”.

A spokesman for HM Revenue and Customs said it did not comment on individual companies but added: “HMRC does all it can to help companies in financial difficulty to stay in business, while acting on behalf of the British taxpayer to see that tax is paid.

“We have a strong track record of providing practical assistance to distressed businesses through our time to pay arrangements.”

A Bradford Council spokesman said: “Monies owed to it will be claimed by the Council as an unsecured creditor in the administration.”

One company, Travel Xpress, based in Otley Road, Baildon, is owed £2,175 by the Bulls.

Fida Hussain, manager, said his past experience working with the club has caused him to lose “all trust” in the Bulls.

He said: “Losing this money has been very inconvenient, the Bradford Bulls accounts department was not very helpful at all.

“They were always fobbing us off, not answering phones or never getting back to us, we were always chasing them for payments.

“I’m a firm believer in doing business with local businesses, but this has definitely affected my trust in others.

“I will be wanting paying up front in future.

“We did work with them on trust but they failed to live up to the expectations and it has been very costly.

“If they pay us what they owe with goodwill it will be good but I do not have the time to chase after them for it.”

Andrew Brough, an expert strength and conditioning coach from Australia, was brought in to help the Bulls through an injury crisis in 2016, and he is owed more than £15,000.

KS Services, an IT company based at Prince Willian House in Bradford, confirmed about £4,500 was owned by the Bulls but did not want to comment about the situation.

A spokesman for St Helen’s RLFC said: “The money owed (£10,800) is player-related. We had a player on loan at the Bulls. Whether it will be paid we can’t say anything about that.”

Neil Woodhead, owner of T&P Print, in Beacon Road, Bradford, said he has written off a £448 debt for printing work but said he will continue to do business with the new Bulls.

“Sometimes this sort of thing happens in business and you have to get over it,” said Mr Woodhead.

“We have a new rugby club in Bradford now and we want to see them up and running again.

“We will carrying on doing business with them. In fact, they have already been in to speak with us.”

Bradford Bulls Northern Ltd also owes money to charities, including about £2,000 to St John Ambulance, £1,715 to Cardiac Risk in the Young, and £1,286 to the Bradford Bulls Foundation.

Keighley recruitment company Fortem People Ltd has ceased business with the Bulls after being owned £918.

Other notable creditors include Texas-based cardiologist Dr Arindam Banerjee (£1,550), Hampshire-based sports strapping provider Physique Management Company (£3,558), Yorkshire Water (£5,000) and Professor Lennard Funk, Manchester-based shoulder specialist (£1,052).

Along with St Helens, Leeds, Batley, Dewsbury, Featherstone, Huddersfield, London, Salford, Sheffield, Whitehaven and Workington rugby league clubs are also owed money.

Mr Green’s solicitor said he was unable to comment on the matter on behalf of his client.

AT 2pm yesterday the deadline passed for creditors to vote on the formal proposals to achieve the objective of the administration of Bradford Bulls Northern Ltd.
The proposals on the table discussed two forms of insolvent liquidation, namely creditors’ voluntary liquidation or a winding up order made by the court.
The main creditors listed by the administrators and the amounts they are owed include:
Marc and Jane Green £750,000; HMRC £400,995; ISC (kit suppliers) £217,718; The Rugby Football league Ltd £66,450.
Narang Wholesale Ltd £34,751; Bradford Council £29,167; Chadwick Lawrence £26,219; Integrated Bradford LEP Ltd £20,081; Heritage Leisure Designs Ltd £19,070.
League Publications Ltd £17,600; Brake Bros Ltd £17,066; Factorprep Com Ltd £15,339; St Helens RLFC £10,891; R Pearson Electrical £10,854; Sean Lowe £8,413; Lupton Fawcett £7,662.
W Cropper Ltd £7,229; Leasing UK Ltd £7,196; Football First Agency Ltd £5,800;Pro Audio £5,760; Rhino Rugby League £5,711; Yorkshire Water £5,000; Hudson Energy £5,000; Syncmedia Ltd £4,511.
Global Autocare Ltd £4,496;Richard FW Gibson £4,197; Show Me The Money UK Ltd £3,875; TopTix Sport UK Ltd £3,787; Payment Sense £3,661;WF Senate £3,600; Physique Management Company £3,558.
West Park Leeds RUFC Ltd £3,354; Williams coaches £3,143; Prodicus Legal £3,000; NAK (UK) Ltd £3,000; Leeds Rhinos £3,000; Whitehaven RLC £2,929; Britannia Plumbing and Heating £2,650; Chilled Events £2,613.
Signature Signs £2,555; Impact Sports Consultancy £2,000; Business Management Services £2,000; Cottage Linen Hire (Leeds) £1,885; Booker £1,884; Jonny Walker £1,793; Dr Anndam Banerjee £1,550; Jailiam Investments £1,500; Eric Twigg Foods £1,429; Reflex Nutrition Ltd £1,425.
Rise International Group £1,386; Group Trader £1,370; Johnston Press £1,200.
BBS Catering and Equipment £1,150; Charles Crookes £1,140; Russell Callaghan £1,100., Professor L Funk £1,052.
A further 110 companies had claims of less than £1,000

Just one of many.
Re: Mark Sawyer Interview Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:27 pm  

Betsy Bulls wrote:
Betsy Bulls Free-scoring winger
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:00 am
Posts: 1844
Location: Mirfield
We’ve been in administration and then liquidated?

I must have missed that one
Re: Mark Sawyer Interview Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:37 pm  

User avatarFr13daY wrote:
Fr13daY User avatar
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Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:55 pm
Posts: 881
Location: A floating palace of ignorance

Highlander wrote:
These ones are trickier. They've bought the RFL fake news that was spun at the time. There was only one point where the RFL could legitimately claim (but still there's an argument against) to have helped and that was when Hood went cap in hand for an end of season loan to help with cash flow. The RFL asked for it to be a secret loan.
Source for the price? This has bugged me for ages as I can remember reading at the last £60m Odsal development that all these other fans would come on and cry "how much are Bradford putting in" and the quote was that Bradford were putting in the head lease which was valued at £7m. But I can't find the article. Then the banking crash happened etc, etc. But, The RFL found themselves unexpectedly in a hole, in that they had a large unsecured loan with the Bulls and the only asset Bulls had was the lease. Cleverly they swapped their unsecured loan and some cash for an asset. Now then, you claim this was the RFL helping us out, I would say the RFL took advantage of a distressed member club and asset stripped that club. Obviously we have a difference of opinion re "help".
On the contrary, if we had gone into admin immediately, without the rfl loan, we would have been a cash poor, asset rich company/club and there is a good chance we would have attracted a much better quality of investor instead of the RFL approved rubbish we did get....
Correct
No. And the Bulls aren't so I'm not sure of the point of your waffle.
Correct - the RFL have contractual responsibilities to the freeholder - Bradford Council. I don't know what those are but I will assume the RFL are meeting their contractual obligations.

FA mode off...


Brilliant stuff here, well done. I thought it was a Christmas miracle and FA had returned.
Never trust a man who, when left alone in a room with a tea cosy, doesn't try it on.
Re: Mark Sawyer Interview Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:17 pm  

User avatarPumpetypump wrote:
Pumpetypump User avatar
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2002 12:55 pm
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Location: LS9

Some of the incompetent people foisted on us by the RFL turned out to be nobheads who stiffed their creditors. And what point is that making?
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