: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:42 pm  

debaser wrote:

Agreed.

Thirded here.

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:44 pm  

Fourthed, unfortunately for us.

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:54 pm  

Duckman wrote:

How many other teams, not just in rugby league but in any sport, have internally recruited their manager over a period of 14 years? Not many if any.

Liverpool did it for quite some time and I think that was during their heyday. However, that gave rise to Souness getting the job and the whole thing fell apart

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:07 pm  

I've waited until today to come and look at the message board rather than come on and say what I thought immediately after the game (and more beer), which would have been get him out NOW!!!!

However, on reflection:

Last night was awful - there is no hiding from that and even Macca has said we were poor. Wire probably gave their best performance of the season too however.

Last night confirmed a few things to me that I have questioned in the past, maybe not on here but to friends and supporters of other clubs who I know.

1. It was our 3rd game in a week - but it was for every other team too. OK we've had to go to Catalan a couple of times in the last month but that amount of travel hasn't stopped Catalan picking up.

We are obviously not as fit as the other teams. OK You could see that there are some guys playing busted. Eg Lynch is slowly turning into a mummy.

For that reason I won't boo players as they put their own health and careers on the line to play.

Is Clawson doing enough, is he good enough? Personally I think we need a change as the defeats to Catalan and Cas showed, when teams get on a role we just collapse off tackles and our fitness seems to be worrying.

2. Where is our aggression?

We don't seem to have anybody who is willing to put in a big hit and run around the players winding them up to make big tackles or get into the faces of the opposition (Morrison excepted).

I know Macca wants us to give away less penalties but a bit of rough and tumble shows the fans that they want to win and are frustrated at not performing. This would lower the booing. I'm not saying Bring back the biff, but RL is a contact sport and you can't make an ommlette without breaking a few eggs.

3. Are we spending upto the cap?

Obviously not as we are bringing in Rinaldi.

We used to have a team of internationals (and I'm not talking Ireland, Scotland and Wales). I appreciate its a delicate balance in making sure you keep within the rules, but can anyone honestly say they think we spend the same amount on wages as Leeds, Saints, Wigan, Wire, Hull, Hull KR etc.

I can't see how we can be spending the same amount of money, and if we are, who the hell in the squad is taking up the dough?

4. Sam Burgess - should we do a Newlove with him?

I might be hung drawn and quartered for this but look what happened the last time we did a deal involving a player swap for our "best" player. We got 3 blokes who were supposedly past it from Saints who turned out to give us 2-3 years great service and some cash to spend on a player or two.

5. Building for the future - this has always made me laugh.

I understand the message the club is trying to get across here, but to have a future you need to have a present!

I saw an interview on Sky Sports with Tony Pullis (Stoke City manager) earlier today, who gave a great quote along the lines of:

"It's ok us getting a great stadium and great facilities, but if you've no fans to come and watch a winning team there's no point in building it. My job is to make sure we win games that allow us to have a future".

If we don't buck our ideas up we are in danger of not getting a franchise next time around. We won't be able to rely on a great stadium as we've no chance of building it due to the inept individuals on board and with the current economic climate I'd say the chances are NIL.

6. Is our academy good enough?

I can't decide on this and I honestly don't go to watch the lower grade games. But, if they were good enough, surely a few would be in the 17 on a more regular basis and not just because of injuries. Macca seems reluctant to play these lads but is it because A; they are not good enough, or B; he doesn't trust them to play? We've got enough of them who have played for England etc. Leeds' youngsters seem to get a fair crack of the whip, so why don't ours?

I will keep my opinions of the coach to myself as I think there is a lot more going on (and has gone on) than we all claim to know with finances, court cases, players wanting to leave and improving the academy structures (allegedly) amongst others having impacted on our club and made the job harder than we would like to think it is.

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:22 pm  

Bradford Badger wrote:

3. Are we spending upto the cap?

Obviously not as we are bringing in Rinaldi.

We used to have a team of internationals (and I'm not talking Ireland, Scotland and Wales). I appreciate its a delicate balance in making sure you keep within the rules, but can anyone honestly say they think we spend the same amount on wages as Leeds, Saints, Wigan, Wire, Hull, Hull KR etc.

I can't see how we can be spending the same amount of money, and if we are, who the hell in the squad is taking up the dough?

If a team is able to secure senior players who can earn so much from Image Rights from seemingly-unconnected organisations that they are happy to play for the club for not very much, that's one way a club could squeeze a lot more out of the so-called salary cap.

If a team is prepared to pay a player a disproportionately-high percentage of his package as image rights. so saving the player a load of tax and NIC and thereby meaning the club does not have to pay the player so much, that's one way a club could squeeze a lot more out of the so-called salary cap. Even though a visit from HMRC is likely to change all that.

If a team remunerates overseas players using the Singapore Sling, so saving the player a load of tax and NIC and thereby meaning the club does not have to pay the player so much, that's one way a club could squeeze a lot more out of the so-called salary cap. Even though a visit from HMRC is likely to change all that too.

If a team avails itself of offshore employee benefit trusts...well you get the idea?

If a team does not engage in practices such as these, because they believe them to be running serious tax risks or because they are unable to get the Gillettes of this world or some pal of the chairman to acquire the image rights of marquee players (sorry, nothing to do with the club...my mistake), or for whatever other reason, then they could still be spending up to the cap but be getting hundreds of thousands of pounds less bang for their bucks than clubs that do.

Look at the squads across the game. Form your own views...?

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:26 pm  

Adeybull wrote:

If a team is able to secure senior players who can earn so much from Image Rights from seemingly-unconnected organisations that they are happy to play for the club for not very much, that's one way a club could squeeze a lot more out of the so-called salary cap.

If a team is prepared to pay a player a disproportionately-high percentage of his package as image rights. so saving the player a load of tax and NIC and thereby meaning the club does not have to pay the player so much, that's one way a club could squeeze a lot more out of the so-called salary cap. Even though a visit from HMRC is likely to change all that.

If a team remunerates overseas players using the Singapore Sling, so saving the player a load of tax and NIC and thereby meaning the club does not have to pay the player so much, that's one way a club could squeeze a lot more out of the so-called salary cap. Even though a visit from HMRC is likely to change all that too.

If a team avails itself of offshore employee benefit trusts...well you get the idea?

If a team does not engage in practices such as these, because they believe them to be running serious tax risks or because they are unable to get the Gillettes of this world or some pal of the chairman to acquire the image rights of marquee players (sorry, nothing to do with the club...my mistake), or for whatever other reason, then they could still be spending up to the cap but be getting hundreds of thousands of pounds less bang for their bucks than clubs that do.

Look at the squads across the game. Form your own views...?

I understand where you are coming from but look at our side from 2005. Do you think we are spending the same on salaries as we did then?

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:27 pm  

Wolfette wrote:

I know the disappointed feeling you must have at the moment as Wire fans we have felt it all too often lately.

But I just wanted to say, I really enjoy coming over to Odsall and always enjoy the banter with the Bradford fans, I was walking out of the game last night on the way back to the car and again had a chat with a few people, win or lose I have always found your fans to be very gratious and friendly.

Thanks for a great night although the win certainly helped and good luck for the rest of the season. I hope that both us and yourselves end up back in the top half of the table soon.

Nice one

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:41 pm  

Bradford Badger wrote:

I understand where you are coming from but look at our side from 2005. Do you think we are spending the same on salaries as we did then?

I SUSPECT we are - more or less.

I SUSPECT that the players of some other clubs are earning considerably more - net,overall and on aggregate - than ours are. For the same alleged cap spend.

I SUSPECT we were able to use techniques ourselves in the past to achieve similar results, which techniques are now not available to us in anything like the same way. (Harris image rights, anyone?)

I KNOW that on average considerably more clubs are reported as spending at or near the cap now than then.

I UNDERSTAND that the new money into the game from the sugar daddies has driven up the packages players, especially Brits, can command.

I HOPE we are not being fed a tale by the club.

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:09 pm  

when saints, rhinos and hull fans start feeling sorry for us then we are truely in the sh#t.

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:27 pm  

BULLETPROOF5002 wrote:

when saints, rhinos and hull fans start feeling sorry for us then we are truely in the sh#t.

When celtic fans do then you're really stuffed