: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:23 pm  

af wrote:

Halley's had his chances, you're rewriting history there. If he was a McNamara signing I have no doubt you'd be decrying him as another that is not good enough.

I think we've established now that you refuse to consider context, refuse to look beyond results in the short term, refuse to consider the fact that the two clubs that have kept a settled squad supplimented by quality academy products (oh, and one Man of Steel shortlister a piece courtesy of us) have been head and shoulders above all the rest during McNamara's reign. No one's got closer than we did in 2007 and no one's particularly more consistent. People still gnash their teeth over our play-off exit to Wigan by a single point that year - Catalans followed up their third place finish by conceding fifty to them. People are quoting Cas and Quins as examples of what can be done, but did you check their boards last year? There were the exact same moans as on here about how clueless the players, the same mistakes made over and over again...

It boils down to this. It's not as bad as you make out, and there is no short-cut to success in any case (Bird could have been it, but sh.t happens). We're not particularly well off, we're no longer particuarly well supported, I'm hoping that Hood et al show particularly large balls, face down the mob and see the plan through. That's the only realistic way I can see Bradford becoming exceptional again.

Is that the 2007 where we only won 3 of our last 9 matches.

[Bullseye]

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:24 pm  

After the successful Leeds side of 99 fell apart it took them five years before they won anything again. Taking out that 99 Challenge Cup Leeds were "in transition" for over 30 years.

Can we expect the green shoots of recovery to show this season? I'd hope it's not going to take us much longer. There was a 17 year gap between us winning major trophies 1980-1997 and 30 year gap 1949-1979. That's almost Leeds-esque

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:32 pm  

Duckman wrote:

Being of the generally positive pursuation, I've been backing McNamara and espeically the long term plan to bring through another generation of young stars, as i dont really see the point of sacking him in the final year of his contract for little guarenteed improvement.

Seems reasonable. though you do have to contend with people who want to knwo why the generation fo young stars haven't won the Cup, WCC and SL Trophy in these first 3 weeks.

Duckman wrote:

So I agree with most of your sentiments af. However, where I have a problem is why does all the long term solutions need to be so tightly pinned to Mcnamara?

They don't, necessarily; it's a given that 99% of all coaches in all sports move on, most sooner rather than later, it's just that on all reports, it is McNamara that has been the persuasive factor in our signings of the Burgesses etc.

Duckman wrote:

But generally I wouldnt advocate sacking McNamara this year unless an absolute collapse of form and lack of wins occurs, which you cant forecast from a disjointed start to the year IMHO (we look rusty from not playing decent opposition in pre season if you ask me, some of the attacking failings in the first two games are what i would expect in preseason) where with a bit more luck and intellegent rugby we'd have won at least one out of two against two well organised and determined teams.

If it had not been for Jeffries' brainfart we had already got the 2 points vs HKR. They also beat Saints away, and should by all accounts have beaten Leeds, so at this stage of the season aren't playing like whipping boys, much though it suits the case of the NT to make facile generalisations like "we 'should' be beating 'teams like these' ".

If Tadulala had not lost hold of the ball in the act of scoring we would almost certainly not have lost to Huddersfield either, however disjointed much of our attacking was. A battle-hardened Hudds. were fresh off the back of a fine victory at Catalans, who were a better team than us last season, so it came as no surprise to find them as competitive as they were.

If we won our game in hand today then we would be up to joint 4th, that's how bad it is. We've already seen enough to know that our pack can more than mix it with the best, and the defence is very good if not yet perfect, so we aren't that far off at all.

Duckman wrote:

It all feels a bit cr@p at the mo, but I agree that its not as bad as some make out.....yet (ask me again after we play Nobles mob)

No Burgess, no Langley, no Solomona, no Deacon . . . sounds tailor-made for a famous victory to me.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:48 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

They don't, necessarily; it's a given that 99% of all coaches in all sports move on, most sooner rather than later, it's just that on all reports, it is McNamara that has been the persuasive factor in our signings of the Burgesses etc. .

This is my point, coaches move on, the club carrys on, if its McNamara or no long term then we have bigger problems as a club than just McNamara. but as it is McNamara who has instigated this turn around in youth policy then I see no reason (barring my previous caveats) why he cant at least be given this season, up to the end of his contract.

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

If it had not been for Jeffries' brainfart we had already got the 2 points vs HKR. They also beat Saints away, and should by all accounts have beaten Leeds, so at this stage of the season aren't playing like whipping boys, much though it suits the case of the NT to make facile generalisations like "we 'should' be beating 'teams like these' ".

If Tadulala had not lost hold of the ball in the act of scoring we would almost certainly not have lost to Huddersfield either, however disjointed much of our attacking was. A battle-hardened Hudds. were fresh off the back of a fine victory at Catalans, who were a better team than us last season, so it came as no surprise to find them as competitive as they were.

If we won our game in hand today then we would be up to joint 4th, that's how bad it is. We've already seen enough to know that our pack can more than mix it with the best, and the defence is very good if not yet perfect, so we aren't that far off at all.

I agree, with all the possesion we had, a lucky/scrappy try early on against Hudds or Hull KR could have seen a confidence start to flow in our attack that is certainly absent at the moment. Huddersfield and Hull KR are both playing well at the moment, whereas we were playing like we were in preseason, (partly the coachs fault, but not entirely) And I think we are guilty as Bradford fans of not giving enough regonition to the two teams we have played, they both played well and took their "limited" chances well. (one of HKR's trys was from a quick tap after a restart on the 20, not that they systematically took us apart)

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

No Burgess, no Langley, no Solomona, no Deacon . . . sounds tailor-made for a famous victory to me.

We might do it, and surely thats the point of it all?? as long as some improvement is shown and its a good game I wont be slitting my wrists even if we lose again, which is quite possible away at Wigan....but far from certain IMO, playing two weeks on the spin will help for a start.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:48 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

No Burgess, no Langley, no Solomona, no Deacon . . . sounds tailor-made for a famous victory to me.

No Lynch...maybe no Godwin...sure in the wars right now. We can't use the injuries as any excuse though given how the likes of Wakefield have performed in adversity.

"My centre is giving way, my right is retreating; situation excellent. I shall
attack!"

Maybe this time out we will.

Deja vu...wonder who'll fill the JP role for us this time round?

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:58 pm  

Duckman wrote:

..
We might do it, and surely thats the point of it all??

It most certainly is.

Duckman wrote:

.. as long as some improvement is shown and its a good game I wont be slitting my wrists even if we lose again, which is quite possible away at Wigan....but far from certain IMO, playing two weeks on the spin will help for a start.

God, the poundings I've watched us take at Wigan, and yes, the more unexpected a win, the sweeter it is. Pretty much a full pack out and a scrum half short is tough, but we should like it tough, and I'm with you, it's how the lads on the field perform first, and result only second.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:02 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

it is McNamara that has been the persuasive factor in our signings of the Burgesses etc.

He also failed to persuade Shenton and Mogg to join us. For every Ying there is a Yang.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:02 pm  

Duckman wrote:

We might do it, and surely thats the point of it all?? as long as some improvement is shown and its a good game I wont be slitting my wrists even if we lose again, which is quite possible away at Wigan....but far from certain IMO, playing two weeks on the spin will help for a start.

IMO that's what every one is hoping and the main grumble about the Huddersfield game as their wasn't any improvement from the Hull KR game.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:17 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

it is McNamara that has been the persuasive factor in our signings of the Burgesses etc.

So the Burgesses more importantly Sam wouldn't have signed with out McNamara yeah right.

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

If it had not been for Jeffries' brainfart we had already got the 2 points vs HKR.

If we hadn't let Hull KR come 60 meters from the scrum they wouldn't have got close enough.

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

They also beat Saints away

A Saints side missing one of their most influential players and containing 4 teenagers with 1 making his debut and the other 3 having made 7 appearances between them.

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

If Tadulala had not lost hold of the ball in the act of scoring we would almost certainly not have lost to Huddersfield either.

I take it you mean Menzies and how much did that crystal ball cost you.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:43 pm  

af wrote: In fact, hit this site and point out the one club whose results you wish we had since Nobby left, Leeds and Saints apart. Catalans? Like I said, lay down and died at home to Wigan and in the cup final at Wembley, and failed to maintain a real challenge for a top two spot despite Leeds wobbling. Now that may seem harsh, but if Bradford side had replicated those exact results over the past four years... if a Bradford side had started this season with a home thrashing by Huddersfield... Go on, I dare you. Who has had a good set of results since 2006? Hello darkness my old friend...

af wrote: In fact, hit this site and point out the one club whose results you wish we had since Nobby left, Leeds and Saints apart. Catalans? Like I said, lay down and died at home to Wigan and in the cup final at Wembley, and failed to maintain a real challenge for a top two spot despite Leeds wobbling. Now that may seem harsh, but if Bradford side had replicated those exact results over the past four years... if a Bradford side had started this season with a home thrashing by Huddersfield... Go on, I dare you. Who has had a good set of results since 2006? Hello darkness my old friend...