Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:13 pm  

The thing which is pi$$ing me off the most is not one member of the board are willing to put their hand and say we messed up. It's all blame this blame that the radio interview was even more annoying all it was lets put a guilt trip on the fans.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:15 pm  

Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza wrote:

The problem with administration is that they have to somehow get a team to Widnes on Easter Monday and put a game on against the Giants two weeks after.

If all the suppliers get letters from the administrator saying they aren't getting a penny from the club and have to apply to get whatever they can get back I can't see that being possible. Is that coach going to turn up on the Monday for example? Or are the police going to provide the neccessary officers at the ground on the following Sunday? Are the company that provide the stewards going to stand by the club?

If the club can't fulfill their fixtures the RFL will be forced to boot them out and then it's not a viable business.

Plenty of RL and football clubs have managed it in similar situations over the years.

Re: Re: : Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:17 pm  

redeverready wrote:

How sure are we it's going to save the club. We've been misled before so whats different now.

I suspect I won't be sure. I'd be willing to throw £100 in to be honest despite how angry I feel right now. If I had complete faith in the people running the club I'd probably throw a bit more money their way.

I've been genuinely moved by the efforts of our own players past and present to raise money for the club. Players inc Whitehead, Bateman, Ainy and Chev are all auctioning things on eBay as we speak.

I'm going to back the pledge, to what value I shall have to give some thought about in the next couple of days.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:18 pm  

Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza wrote:

The problem with administration is that they have to somehow get a team to Widnes on Easter Monday and put a game on against the Giants two weeks after.

If all the suppliers get letters from the administrator saying they aren't getting a penny from the club and have to apply to get whatever they can get back I can't see that being possible. Is that coach going to turn up on the Monday for example? Or are the police going to provide the neccessary officers at the ground on the following Sunday? Are the company that provide the stewards going to stand by the club?

If the club can't fulfill their fixtures the RFL will be forced to boot them out and then it's not a viable business.

Exactly!

Our situation is vastly different to the one wakefield faced! Aministration is simply not an option, it isn't viable for us and if it happens the bulls as we know them will cease to exist! We are dealing with a short term cash flow issue, and once we resolve this we are clear of ALL DEBT! And are said to have a viable business plan to go into motion. In contrast to Wakefield, I see administration doing far more damage to our club than good! We need to act to save the club!

The support from the greater rugby league community as a whole has been overwhelming, but I'm sick of people suggesting giving up on the situation and accepting administration is the best option... thanks for the advice, but we will do our best to save our beloved bulls!

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:23 pm  

Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza wrote:

The problem with administration is that they have to somehow get a team to Widnes on Easter Monday and put a game on against the Giants two weeks after.

If all the suppliers get letters from the administrator saying they aren't getting a penny from the club and have to apply to get whatever they can get back I can't see that being possible. Is that coach going to turn up on the Monday for example? Or are the police going to provide the neccessary officers at the ground on the following Sunday? Are the company that provide the stewards going to stand by the club?

If the club can't fulfill their fixtures the RFL will be forced to boot them out and then it's not a viable business.

The administrators job is to try and rescue the company and I really can't see the RFL's favoured administrator, O'Hara's, who handled Wakefield's and Crusaders administration, letting this happen. The RFL will rightly most probably step in and tell O'Hara that they will cover the costs of supporting the team in the short term, paying the players and coach, while O'Hara looks for a buyer for the business as a going concern. The thing is, as exactly happened at Wakefield, no-one is going to step in until the club goes in administration because they are not going to burden themselves with the existing debt. Also, with the image rights issue with HMRC seemingly still not fully resolved them you also have a unknown future tax liability that could be a reasonably significant sum of money.

The RFL will support the Bulls in the short term, just as they did at the end of the season with the Crusaders players but even they are not stupid enough to put any money into a failing management for nothing or no guarantee. They have already bought the lease for Odsal, probably knowing this was coming, so you have a ground for a 'new' phoenix club to play, to aid a pre-pack company to emerge under a new owner.

Is it a risk going into administration, yes, of course and you will lose 4 points, lose players in fire sale but I suspect under new ownership you could not only rebuild but thrive in the long term... you need look no further than Wakefield who have shown under dynamic new ownership, that you can run a sustainable business once the burden of that debt is gone!

Be careful what you all wish for...

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:25 pm  

Asim wrote:

Plenty of RL and football clubs have managed it in similar situations over the years.

I know but where has the money come from to carry on trading? The administrator hasn't got any. Someone's paid out of there own pocket to keep suppliers happy. For example when connaught went into admin the workers had to pay out of their own pockets to fill up the vans (whilst not getting any wages).

I'm sure the staff and players would continue to play and work for free because they don't get paid by the administrator but would the shreholders be prepared or have enough to stick that cash in that they won't get back?

We don't know any of this. I personally decided to take the appeal as genuine.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:31 pm  

Raising 500k before next week will be almost impossible. Then you have to do it all again. Even if it can could the board be believed with the claim that sum will sort the problem? They said just a couple of months ago that the finances were secure after the ground sale. Why should they be trusted? If they are wrong this time then there will be nowhere to go. The players will have already sold their shirts, the fundraising bled dry and the pledges gone. People will have nothing left to give. Can you trust the same people that got you into his mess to get you out of it because i'm not sure i would. But give them the money rather than your trust and it is a big risk.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:32 pm  

NorthumbriaBull wrote:

Exactly!

Our situation is vastly different to the one wakefield faced! Aministration is simply not an option, it isn't viable for us and if it happens the bulls as we know them will cease to exist! We are dealing with a short term cash flow issue, and once we resolve this we are clear of ALL DEBT! And are said to have a viable business plan to go into motion. In contrast to Wakefield, I see administration doing far more damage to our club than good! We need to act to save the club!

The support from the greater rugby league community as a whole has been overwhelming, but I'm sick of people suggesting giving up on the situation and accepting administration is the best option... thanks for the advice, but we will do our best to save our beloved bulls!

No it's not... it is almost exactly the same... and I was accidentally in a front row seat during Wakefield's administration and take-over by Andrew Glover, so I do have more of an insight than most!

In fact, I remember Ted Richardson standing in front of a room full of very passionate Trinity supporter and saying pretty much exactly what you have posted above... strange that!

Finally, it saving the Bulls I am most interested in too despite them not being 'my' club... and I do have a track record to back me up!

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:33 pm  

Inflatable_Armadillo wrote:

The administrators job is to try and rescue the company and I really can't see the RFL's favoured administrator, O'Hara's, who handled Wakefield's and Crusaders administration, letting this happen. The RFL will rightly most probably step in and tell O'Hara that they will cover the costs of supporting the team in the short term, paying the players and coach, while O'Hara looks for a buyer for the business as a going concern. The thing is, as exactly happened at Wakefield, no-one is going to step in until the club goes in administration because they are not going to burden themselves with the existing debt. Also, with the image rights issue with HMRC seemingly still not fully resolved them you also have a unknown future tax liability that could be a reasonably significant sum of money.

The RFL will support the Bulls in the short term, just as they did at the end of the season with the Crusaders players but even they are not stupid enough to put any money into a failing management for nothing or no guarantee. They have already bought the lease for Odsal, probably knowing this was coming, so you have a ground for a 'new' phoenix club to play, to aid a pre-pack company to emerge under a new owner.

Is it a risk going into administration, yes, of course and you will lose 4 points, lose players in fire sale but I suspect under new ownership you could not only rebuild but thrive in the long term... you need look no further than Wakefield who have shown under dynamic new ownership, that you can run a sustainable business once the burden of that debt is gone!

Be careful what you all wish for...

So you know for a fact that the RFL will stump up the costs to put these games on while the club's in administration?

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:34 pm  

Jonesy's a Legend wrote: can i just say that i come here in peace and am in no way enjoying the predicament that your great club is in at the moment,i sincerely hope that there is a way back for you as sl would be a worse place without you I have often been accused of being nothing more than a troll on here due to my negative posts,but i was merely trying to convey the information that i was told in confidence to you in order that you could seek the relevant answers at your fans forum evenings I have just posted this on southstander viewtopic.php?f=17&t=523095&p=16797027#p16797027 the hints and clues were clearly there but you all just ignored them? and as a neighbour down the allotment thats a Hudds fan has pointed out: wheres the Leeds new stand, and where will the £ 2m parachute that Leeds will need to repay to the RU when they do not get immediate promotion come from? Paul "the construction business is up the Sh@t" Caddick"? Seems like our payments for the has been Harris have kept Leeds afloat this last couple of years, so less lip dickseys a leg end, we have been subsidising you.

Jonesy's a Legend wrote: can i just say that i come here in peace and am in no way enjoying the predicament that your great club is in at the moment,i sincerely hope that there is a way back for you as sl would be a worse place without you I have often been accused of being nothing more than a troll on here due to my negative posts,but i was merely trying to convey the information that i was told in confidence to you in order that you could seek the relevant answers at your fans forum evenings I have just posted this on southstander viewtopic.php?f=17&t=523095&p=16797027#p16797027 the hints and clues were clearly there but you all just ignored them? and as a neighbour down the allotment thats a Hudds fan has pointed out: wheres the Leeds new stand, and where will the £ 2m parachute that Leeds will need to repay to the RU when they do not get immediate promotion come from? Paul "the construction business is up the Sh@t" Caddick"? Seems like our payments for the has been Harris have kept Leeds afloat this last couple of years, so less lip dickseys a leg end, we have been subsidising you.